Marc Weiss Products
- Thread starter neurotech
- Start date
I dont think that it is 'whats wrong with it', I think the question is, 'do you need it'?
I think many (most?) reefers tried lots of different additives when starting out. After all you want the best for your system right?
Ask folks with several years of experience maintaining a home system... they dont add much anymore. Me? I just add kalkwasser...thats it.
If I remember correctly... Dr. Ron Shimeks 'food' analysis included coral vital, which had about the same nutritional value as liquified brine shrimp. The question again is... do you need to be adding liquid nutrients like this to your tank. More often... the tricky task is to keep the nutrient level *down* in the system while still providing adequate nutrition. Thats why we have protein skimmers to keep dissolved organics down etc.
babling,
Steve R.
ps.. for reference:
http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish/data/foods.asp
[ January 28, 2002: Message edited by: Steve Richardson ]</p>
I think many (most?) reefers tried lots of different additives when starting out. After all you want the best for your system right?
Ask folks with several years of experience maintaining a home system... they dont add much anymore. Me? I just add kalkwasser...thats it.
If I remember correctly... Dr. Ron Shimeks 'food' analysis included coral vital, which had about the same nutritional value as liquified brine shrimp. The question again is... do you need to be adding liquid nutrients like this to your tank. More often... the tricky task is to keep the nutrient level *down* in the system while still providing adequate nutrition. Thats why we have protein skimmers to keep dissolved organics down etc.
babling,
Steve R.
ps.. for reference:
http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish/data/foods.asp
[ January 28, 2002: Message edited by: Steve Richardson ]</p>
May be fine for you. I added it to two separate tanks and all the fish were affected. In retrospect, the white coating they all experienced may have been as a result of the product affecting pH, which is not indicated on the bottle. I am sure google searches will turn up other stories. However, do monitor your pH if you are using this product, if you would, and report results.
Shimek's food value thing was about Marine Snow I believe..
Shimek's food value thing was about Marine Snow I believe..
No, read the reference I posted. Marine snow was included in the results - but the analysis included many items (mostly food items) and a few liquid suppliments including Coral Vital.
I dont think CoralVital alters pH in any meaningful way at all - and shouldnt be the cause of any 'white coating'. It is mostly harmless if used as instructed, and as I said - it is just a liquid organic soup.
-Steve R.
I dont think CoralVital alters pH in any meaningful way at all - and shouldnt be the cause of any 'white coating'. It is mostly harmless if used as instructed, and as I said - it is just a liquid organic soup.
-Steve R.
It seems to me most people react to the claims made by the Weiss products, their packaging, and what some feel is questionably misleading advertising.
An analysis published recently basically showed nothing special about the products, even though they claim to be revolutionary. I was a bit put off when my LFS recommended one of his products for my tank, and it was in this big plastic jar - I open it to find a small ziplock bag of powder, a fraction of the volume that the package leads one to believe is included. I kind of felt like a drug dealer cutting cocaine whenever I'd try adding this stuff to my tank (coke spoon included).. ha ha
Ultimately, my experience with his products was unremarkable.
An analysis published recently basically showed nothing special about the products, even though they claim to be revolutionary. I was a bit put off when my LFS recommended one of his products for my tank, and it was in this big plastic jar - I open it to find a small ziplock bag of powder, a fraction of the volume that the package leads one to believe is included. I kind of felt like a drug dealer cutting cocaine whenever I'd try adding this stuff to my tank (coke spoon included).. ha ha
Ultimately, my experience with his products was unremarkable.
I think a lot of us have tried these products with no benefit.
I personally spent hundreds on several of these products when I was starting - then stopped and noticed absolutely no difference – except I have more money for things that do make a difference – like a great skimmer and ca reactor.
Your LFS would love you to spend a lot of money on worthless products – just ask ‘em.
I personally spent hundreds on several of these products when I was starting - then stopped and noticed absolutely no difference – except I have more money for things that do make a difference – like a great skimmer and ca reactor.
Your LFS would love you to spend a lot of money on worthless products – just ask ‘em.
I tried them too. Didn't see anything great happen. Actually, when I started making sure my basic parameters were stable, and stopped hoping additives of any kind would "fix" my tank, my tank got much better. Now I add B-ionic (and am thinking about stopping this) and Kalk. The tank has never been better.
I don't think instant fixes in a bottle help, except to make us feel like we are doing something.
RR
I don't think instant fixes in a bottle help, except to make us feel like we are doing something.
RR
Hey Steve, welcome back!
I agree with your post. Before buying a product, ask yourself if you need it. A lot of times, it is impossible to answer this question, because you don't know what's in it! That is a dead giveaway that you probably don't need it for your system.
If the ingredients are something like "bioessential micronutrients" or "beneficial vitamins" that doesn't tell you anything, so don't be fooled by that either.
Cheers
James
I agree with your post. Before buying a product, ask yourself if you need it. A lot of times, it is impossible to answer this question, because you don't know what's in it! That is a dead giveaway that you probably don't need it for your system.
If the ingredients are something like "bioessential micronutrients" or "beneficial vitamins" that doesn't tell you anything, so don't be fooled by that either.
Cheers
James
Personally I like the Black Powder and the brown one(the name eludes me right now). Since I have been using it in my big tank there seems to be a substantial amount of small feather dusters growing on the rock. Maybe they would have came along anyway...maybe not. In the 18 gallon tank that I don't use his stuff in I don't see any of these little guys...so who knows.
Hey look what the cat dragged in! welcome back Steve!
Coral Vital aka Pineapple Juice aka Sugar Water can and does spoil. Actually it starts to ferment because of the high amount of glucose in the product.
Roach: if you really like Black Powder go to your local nursery and buy Blood Meal, it's the same product and you don't line Marc Weiss's pocket. In all reality you are just adding nutrients and iron.
If you use any Weiss product I surely hope you have a massive skimmer
Coral Vital aka Pineapple Juice aka Sugar Water can and does spoil. Actually it starts to ferment because of the high amount of glucose in the product.
Roach: if you really like Black Powder go to your local nursery and buy Blood Meal, it's the same product and you don't line Marc Weiss's pocket. In all reality you are just adding nutrients and iron.
If you use any Weiss product I surely hope you have a massive skimmer
From the label... you can determine for yourself what is more 'dubious'.
Its pretty clear to me.
-------------------------------------------------
CORAL-VITAL
A Marc Weiss Product
Enhances growth of coraline algaes. Promotes coral polyp regeneration and reproduction.
Causes Cryptocaryon ("Saltwater Ich") to become dormant. Corals "open up"; adhesion to substrate is accelerated. Breaks down ammonia and nitrates. Enhances utilization of organic wastes to create an ongoing cycle.
With continued use colorful Coraline algae growth can 'choke out" and overtake hair, green, brown, blue and red algaes such as slime and bubble algaes. Increase dosage to cycle new aquariums, acclimate new fishes, corals and marine life and enhance their reproduction.
NOT A TRACE ELEMENT REPLACEMENT. NOT A MEDICATION OR FERTILIZER. ENHANCES ABILITY OF PHOTOSYNTHETIC MARINE ORGANISMS TO OBTAIN NUTRIENTS FROM WATER AND UTILIZE LIGHT. CONTAINS ALL ,NATURAL NON - TOXIC AQUATIC BIOLOGICAL ENZYME CATALYSTS. FOR AQUARIUM AND AQUACULTURE USE ONLY. CONTAINS NO NITRATES, PHOSPHATES, ALGICIDES, OR MEDICAMENTS.
Directions: Continue use of kalkwasser, strontium, and necessary additives. Provide adequate light. Use one teaspoon per 100 gallons per day for the first thirty days or when coraline growth is sufficient. May then be reduced to two or three times a week. Non - toxic to aquarium inhabitants at recommended dosage. Cryptocaryon becomes dormant in the presence of this product; triple dosage for a few days when adding new fish or to acclimate corals etc. Increase dose for two days before adding new specimens if possible.
Product in bottle has two year shelf life. If mixed with water for use with dosing pump; use mixture within thirty days. Contents: 6 fl. oz. of enzymatic activated biological catlalysts. Patent Pending +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Coral VitalTM is an enzymic activated biologic catalyst designed to stabilize microorganisms whose by products directly benefit corals. This process achieves a stabilization of aerobic and anaerobic processes. These processes work through the nitrogen cycle and carbonization cycle and results in decomposition of organic wastes allowing certain organisms to out compete others.
Simply put, Coral VitalTM contains natural enzymes produced by aquatic microorganisms. These enzymic catalysts will put the beneficial bacteria, coraline algaes photosynthetic corals and higher organisms into "over-drive". It will cause them to "eat" more, and grow faster and utilize light more efficiently. Organisms such as hair and slime algaes will be "starved out" by the accelerated growth of the coralines, corals, etc.
You will still need trace elements and the recommended additives for the creatures you are keeping. As they will now grow faster you may find you need to increase these substances as your organisms will consume nutrients faster. Adequate lighting is the driving force behind all photosynthetic organisms and must be maintained. If your aquarium cannot support life, Coral UitalTM will not create life; it can only enhance what already is there.
No, Coral UitalTM is not toxic to aquarium inhabitants usually desired in a reef aquarium recommended dosage should be followed .Though not toxic to humans and household pets, please keep it out of the reach of children, dogs, cats etc.- it is prepared for aquarium and aquaculture use only
If it isn't toxic you may ask how does Coral UitalTM cure saltwater ich (Cryptocaryon)? Actually, we don't exactly know! During the testing phase of the product we discovered that the ich parasite would become dormant and non-infectious when Coral UitalTM was used. These parasites are invariably always present and infect stressed fishes and/or overwhelm them. Until Coral UitalTM there were no simple, safe, effective options. Now fishes can be maintained in a reef tank free of white spots without damage to your valuable corals!
A daily dose is suggested as the Coral Vital TM is consumed rapidly by the organisms you are growing. If you stop using it for a few days it will have all been assimilated and growth patterns will simply return to what is normal for that aquarium. If the fishes present have a tendency to get ich, you would want to dose at least twice a week if not more often. Each tank is different in this regard as ich is stress related. If the fishes are aggressive to each other, ich becomes more of a problem. Such aquaria may show some random spots on the fishes that will go away once you resume dosing.
If light and nutrients are adequate double or triple dosing can be useful to speed up coraline growth, help cultured coral fragments adhere to the substrate, "cure" live rock, and regenerate injured corals. It can also help stave off ich when new fishes are introduced and help the bacteria detoxify a system where organisms have suddenly died, overloading the system.
Aquaria can be cycled with Coral Vital TM. It will continuously break down ammonia and nitrates after about twenty four hours of use and will cause rapid proliferation of nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria. After a few days they should be able to do the job on their own. Make sure to provide some "starter" bacteria in the form of live rock or live sand and test for ammonia daily if you won't be using Coral Vital TM every day for the first couple of weeks. Remember, our product enhances, does not replace necessary things! Yes, Coral Vital TM will break down ammonia in tap water. Dechlorinate first, and wait twenty four hours. A double or triple dose is suggested. Coral Vital TM
Does not interfere with skimmers. It is not easily removed itself before it is consumed by aquarium inhabitants.
Does not interfere with test results. Don't forget that nitrogen gas is constantly being liberated; a few ppm will therefore register.
When dosed; redox will dip a few millivolts as organisms consume extra oxygen to oxidize ammonia. It will return to previous readings in a few minutes. After several doses redox will often start to rise.
If you have any further questions please don't hesitate to call. We have tested Coral Vital TM extensively at both public and private aquaria, commercial facilities and in the laboratory. With literally thousands of species of organisms being kept today, exciting results are reported to us on a regular basis. Do let us know your your observations.
--------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------
CORAL-VITAL
A Marc Weiss Product
Enhances growth of coraline algaes. Promotes coral polyp regeneration and reproduction.
Causes Cryptocaryon ("Saltwater Ich") to become dormant. Corals "open up"; adhesion to substrate is accelerated. Breaks down ammonia and nitrates. Enhances utilization of organic wastes to create an ongoing cycle.
With continued use colorful Coraline algae growth can 'choke out" and overtake hair, green, brown, blue and red algaes such as slime and bubble algaes. Increase dosage to cycle new aquariums, acclimate new fishes, corals and marine life and enhance their reproduction.
NOT A TRACE ELEMENT REPLACEMENT. NOT A MEDICATION OR FERTILIZER. ENHANCES ABILITY OF PHOTOSYNTHETIC MARINE ORGANISMS TO OBTAIN NUTRIENTS FROM WATER AND UTILIZE LIGHT. CONTAINS ALL ,NATURAL NON - TOXIC AQUATIC BIOLOGICAL ENZYME CATALYSTS. FOR AQUARIUM AND AQUACULTURE USE ONLY. CONTAINS NO NITRATES, PHOSPHATES, ALGICIDES, OR MEDICAMENTS.
Directions: Continue use of kalkwasser, strontium, and necessary additives. Provide adequate light. Use one teaspoon per 100 gallons per day for the first thirty days or when coraline growth is sufficient. May then be reduced to two or three times a week. Non - toxic to aquarium inhabitants at recommended dosage. Cryptocaryon becomes dormant in the presence of this product; triple dosage for a few days when adding new fish or to acclimate corals etc. Increase dose for two days before adding new specimens if possible.
Product in bottle has two year shelf life. If mixed with water for use with dosing pump; use mixture within thirty days. Contents: 6 fl. oz. of enzymatic activated biological catlalysts. Patent Pending +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Coral VitalTM is an enzymic activated biologic catalyst designed to stabilize microorganisms whose by products directly benefit corals. This process achieves a stabilization of aerobic and anaerobic processes. These processes work through the nitrogen cycle and carbonization cycle and results in decomposition of organic wastes allowing certain organisms to out compete others.
Simply put, Coral VitalTM contains natural enzymes produced by aquatic microorganisms. These enzymic catalysts will put the beneficial bacteria, coraline algaes photosynthetic corals and higher organisms into "over-drive". It will cause them to "eat" more, and grow faster and utilize light more efficiently. Organisms such as hair and slime algaes will be "starved out" by the accelerated growth of the coralines, corals, etc.
You will still need trace elements and the recommended additives for the creatures you are keeping. As they will now grow faster you may find you need to increase these substances as your organisms will consume nutrients faster. Adequate lighting is the driving force behind all photosynthetic organisms and must be maintained. If your aquarium cannot support life, Coral UitalTM will not create life; it can only enhance what already is there.
No, Coral UitalTM is not toxic to aquarium inhabitants usually desired in a reef aquarium recommended dosage should be followed .Though not toxic to humans and household pets, please keep it out of the reach of children, dogs, cats etc.- it is prepared for aquarium and aquaculture use only
If it isn't toxic you may ask how does Coral UitalTM cure saltwater ich (Cryptocaryon)? Actually, we don't exactly know! During the testing phase of the product we discovered that the ich parasite would become dormant and non-infectious when Coral UitalTM was used. These parasites are invariably always present and infect stressed fishes and/or overwhelm them. Until Coral UitalTM there were no simple, safe, effective options. Now fishes can be maintained in a reef tank free of white spots without damage to your valuable corals!
A daily dose is suggested as the Coral Vital TM is consumed rapidly by the organisms you are growing. If you stop using it for a few days it will have all been assimilated and growth patterns will simply return to what is normal for that aquarium. If the fishes present have a tendency to get ich, you would want to dose at least twice a week if not more often. Each tank is different in this regard as ich is stress related. If the fishes are aggressive to each other, ich becomes more of a problem. Such aquaria may show some random spots on the fishes that will go away once you resume dosing.
If light and nutrients are adequate double or triple dosing can be useful to speed up coraline growth, help cultured coral fragments adhere to the substrate, "cure" live rock, and regenerate injured corals. It can also help stave off ich when new fishes are introduced and help the bacteria detoxify a system where organisms have suddenly died, overloading the system.
Aquaria can be cycled with Coral Vital TM. It will continuously break down ammonia and nitrates after about twenty four hours of use and will cause rapid proliferation of nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria. After a few days they should be able to do the job on their own. Make sure to provide some "starter" bacteria in the form of live rock or live sand and test for ammonia daily if you won't be using Coral Vital TM every day for the first couple of weeks. Remember, our product enhances, does not replace necessary things! Yes, Coral Vital TM will break down ammonia in tap water. Dechlorinate first, and wait twenty four hours. A double or triple dose is suggested. Coral Vital TM
Does not interfere with skimmers. It is not easily removed itself before it is consumed by aquarium inhabitants.
Does not interfere with test results. Don't forget that nitrogen gas is constantly being liberated; a few ppm will therefore register.
When dosed; redox will dip a few millivolts as organisms consume extra oxygen to oxidize ammonia. It will return to previous readings in a few minutes. After several doses redox will often start to rise.
If you have any further questions please don't hesitate to call. We have tested Coral Vital TM extensively at both public and private aquaria, commercial facilities and in the laboratory. With literally thousands of species of organisms being kept today, exciting results are reported to us on a regular basis. Do let us know your your observations.
--------------------------------------------------
No, no, no. I think the problem is with the user, not the product. You see, the proper way to use Weiss' products is to keep your animals in a bucket on the porch and use ten times the recommended dose. Also, be sure to cycle the tank (or bucket) with a Grouper or Powder Blue Tang. From what I've read in recent Weiss interviews I believe this should give great results
Steve -
You missed some of my favorite Marc Wiess claims. The following is from product labels, magazine ads, and/or his web site:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Light interaction with the water molecule is essential to transfer energy. The "Vitals" turn the bulk water into a liquid crystal aligning the water molecules to transfer light more bio-effectively.
The products are designed to commence and synchronize the cycles that occur in reefs in nature. The product doesn't immediately recognize what position each of the cycles are in when added, and needs a little time to recognize them.
A protein skimmer/foam fractionator cannot skim out Coral Vital or LSB; thats how well it fits into the water molecule!
Why is it sometimes when I open a bottle of your liquids there is a spark, and I feel a small electric "shock"? - From the beginning our products (liquids and powders) have been designed to have a polar attraction to living cells; in most cases ones fingers qualify!
No need to call me about the little electrical shocks and tingles you get sometimes when you open the bottle! I know all about it! There’s life in my jars and bottles just waiting to get into your aquarium!
As with all our polar charged bio-colloidal products BlackPowder is formulated from what were originally living cells.
The product is actually alive, and it creates more colloids until they’re all consumed!
Indeed, the product is "self-digesting", producing more colloids as it consumes others in a cycle that you can allow to proceed should you continue to add more before what's left is consumed.
<hr></blockquote>
While claiming to turns water into liquid crystals, recognizing biological and chemical cycles, claiming static electricity as a product benefit, and claiming that static electricity is life are all good for a laugh, I think my overall favorite has to be the third one down. Coral Vital actually inserts itself into the water molecule. It was H2O, now it's H2-Coral Vital-O!
The last three claims are all for Black Powder. First it's made from formerly living cells, then in the next paragraph it's actually alive!
As I said in a similar thread a while back: Making fun of Marc Weiss advertising is like hunting cows with a high powered rifle and scope.
[ January 31, 2002: Message edited by: MattM ]</p>
You missed some of my favorite Marc Wiess claims. The following is from product labels, magazine ads, and/or his web site:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Light interaction with the water molecule is essential to transfer energy. The "Vitals" turn the bulk water into a liquid crystal aligning the water molecules to transfer light more bio-effectively.
The products are designed to commence and synchronize the cycles that occur in reefs in nature. The product doesn't immediately recognize what position each of the cycles are in when added, and needs a little time to recognize them.
A protein skimmer/foam fractionator cannot skim out Coral Vital or LSB; thats how well it fits into the water molecule!
Why is it sometimes when I open a bottle of your liquids there is a spark, and I feel a small electric "shock"? - From the beginning our products (liquids and powders) have been designed to have a polar attraction to living cells; in most cases ones fingers qualify!
No need to call me about the little electrical shocks and tingles you get sometimes when you open the bottle! I know all about it! There’s life in my jars and bottles just waiting to get into your aquarium!
As with all our polar charged bio-colloidal products BlackPowder is formulated from what were originally living cells.
The product is actually alive, and it creates more colloids until they’re all consumed!
Indeed, the product is "self-digesting", producing more colloids as it consumes others in a cycle that you can allow to proceed should you continue to add more before what's left is consumed.
<hr></blockquote>
While claiming to turns water into liquid crystals, recognizing biological and chemical cycles, claiming static electricity as a product benefit, and claiming that static electricity is life are all good for a laugh, I think my overall favorite has to be the third one down. Coral Vital actually inserts itself into the water molecule. It was H2O, now it's H2-Coral Vital-O!
The last three claims are all for Black Powder. First it's made from formerly living cells, then in the next paragraph it's actually alive!
As I said in a similar thread a while back: Making fun of Marc Weiss advertising is like hunting cows with a high powered rifle and scope.
[ January 31, 2002: Message edited by: MattM ]</p>
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