Pump Decision Time

[tmncali]

Here it goes,
MagDrive 1200gph Water Pump
115 Volt 60 Hz
110 Watts - 1.6 amps
1100gpd at 4 feet

MagDrive 1800gph Water Pump
115 Volt 60 Hz
145 Watts - 1.5 amps
1350gpd at 4 feet

M12 10gph per Watt @4ft
M18 9.3gph per Watt @4ft
as P.A. website states

now i maybe wrong but isnt it Amps*Volts=Watts?
M12 1.6A*115=184 Watts yielding ~6gph per watt
M18 1.5A*115=172 Watts yielding ~8gph per watt

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Either way, my question is, "Would 2 Mag 12's for my 140 be ok?
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From Danner Mfg
Model 12
Mag-Drive 15.0'max 1175gph@1ft 110 Watts 1.5Amps

Model 18
Mag-Drive 20.0'max 1700gph@1ft 145 Watts 1.5Amps

so i dont know.. is the 12 a stronger pump seeing that they say it only loses 25gph@1' vs. 100gph@1' on the 18?

12 loses 3%@1'
18 loses 5.5%@1'

i may be thinking this too much so back to original reason for post.

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"Would 2 Mag 12's for my 140 be ok?
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Thanks

tony

 

[platylover]

Save yourself some money and go with a Dolphin ampmaster. This will be my next pump.

3600gph at 0' using 1.1 amps
3120gph at 4' using less than 1.1 amps

And yes, amps * volts = watts

You can use the one ampmaster instead of the two magdrives. And you get a nine year warranty.


check it out at http://dolphinpumps.com

 

[mariner]

Theres a rather large cost difference between the two!!!!!

 

[srbayless]

Howdy,

I have a mag24 on my 80g and love it. It is running my AquaC EV150 and the 2 return lines back to the tank.

The Mag18 is more powerful than the 12's. Even though the 18 loses a higher percentage, not much more, the overall GPH is still higher.

I would go with at least 2 mag18's, they only cost $15 more. If you really want to move some water, a mag24 is only $30 more than a mag12. You could scale down the return with ball valves.

Anyway, I love the Mag pumps and I don't think you can go wrong using them. You might want to do some analysis on external pumps (like iwakis) to see how they compare.

Good luck,

Scott

 

[platylover]

Sure there is a cost difference upfront, but you will save $$$ in the long run.

Mag18 x 2 = $220
Ampmaster x 1 = $270

So there would be a $50 difference upfront.

But, let's just say that the power usage of a Mag 18 is the same as an ampmaster, even though the Mag 18 uses more.

So, we would be using 1.5amps more power for the other Mag18. Let's also assume that the pump will be running 24/7 and since tmncali is in SoCal like me, he's probably paying .236 per kWh for 201%-300% baseline tier just like me. Any energy savings comes out of the most expensive pricing tier.

So, 1.5 amps at 115 volts comes out to approximately 1500 kWh per year which is about $300 annual saving by running 1 ampmaster versus 2 Mag18s.

 

[tmncali]

platylover, mariner, srbayless,

thanks for the info. now what kind of effect will this have. my plumbing is 1" and on the web site it says to reduce flow by 40% for 1" so now im down to 1800 gph unless there is a way to wye the 1.5" out put into 2 1" pipes? and figure out what flow effect that would have. i guess i should have mentioned that i have 1 1/4" durso standpipes in each corner exiting through 1" pipe. still open for further suggestions/advice/comments.

too many variables..

thank you again though

tony

[ July 31, 2001: Message edited by: tmncali ]

 

[SPC]

Tony, you can come off the pump with 1.5" pipe and then split the two 1" pipes with a T. The T is 1.5" on one end and has two 1" comming off it.
Steve

 

[Ritteri&Bubbles]

I wouldnt go with an Ampmaster, its a low RPM Centrifigal pump that is not designed for small diameter tubing. Even when used with a splitter manifold it loses alot of the "GPH" rating, and it is significantly reduced. A Mag 24 is actually a better pump for a pair of returns like the one your planning on doing. I actually have a pair of Mag 18's for a 150 gallon setup of mine. They work great. Reliability either way wont even be a factor, they all will pretty much last you for years and years.

 

[tmncali]

SPC,
will that let me mantain the pumps max flow or will i still have restriction reducing the flow?

 

[tmncali]

Ritteri&Bubbles

i guess its pretty much gonna end up being a personal choice for me eventually, huh? some people say yes, some no. but that is one of the things that come with gathering so many minds you can get so many different thoughts and ideas which is a good thing. except for me, when im trying to make a decision.


thanks again

tony

 

[tmncali]

well i dont know but i may be leaning towards the AMPMASTER 3600 just to make sure i have enough flow.

thanks

tony

 

[SPC]

Tony, what I have suggested should not limit the flow. One thing I wanted to point out is I have read in the past where some people had problems with Mag pumps leaking when run out of the sump, I dont know if this is still a problem.
Steve

 

[ckeadle]

will it hurt the ampmaster pump if you throttle it back some?

 

[golfish]

The Amp Master is made to be throttle down. I have been using this pump for 5 months on a closed loop with two 1" Sea swirls (150 gal) Even with the Y fittings on both SS's the flow is too much and has to be throttle down just a bit......SPS, LPS and clams all doing fine.

Mark

 

[Speed]

Ampmaster will also put a lot less heat in your water than the Mags. Something to consider if your doing reef.

 

[Ritteri&Bubbles]

Thats only true if the Mags are run submerged, but when run externally they dont add any heat. Regardless of the fact you'll get a reliable pump either way. But I look at it this way, I would rather have a pair of Mag drives over a single Ampmaster. 2 Mag 18's will only use about 2.5 amps(is this even really a big concern over minimal power usage?),pump a bit more water flow, will cost you a few bucks less,gives you internal/external flexibility, and the important thing that I feel is that even though the Ampmaster has a 9 year warrenty, its still mechanical and prone to fail. Running a pair of Mag 18's gives your system a better fail safe plan, should one ever die or clog on you at least you would still have one going, but if you were running your system off a single pump, and if it should ever clog/fail you have no backup or water flow period. So in this respect running 2 pumps I think is a much better investment in safety, especially when you have a lot of money put into corals and fish.

 

[golfish]

I believe you may be wrong about the Mag pumps transferring heat. Even if used externally they will still transfer heat, maybe not as much as if submerged. Its really not a problem though...I have used a lot of different pumps in my 17 years in this hobby and the Rio and Mag are the only two that have failed me. I still run 3 different Mags on my 150, Mag 2 for Calcium reactor, Mag 7 for skimmer and Mag 1200 for Sump return. There good pumps but I wouldn't trade my AM3000 for six Mag 18's....Unless they were new and I could return them for the extra cash

 

[Ritteri&Bubbles]

Regardless, theres a much higher chance of one single pump clogging or failing than 2 pumps failing simultaneously or clogging. Ive heard of probs with the Mags in the small casing design(Mag 2-7) But have never heard of any problems with the 9-18 Mag Drives.These things are built solid with a simple effective design. I have 1 thats 4 years old and have never had a problem with any of them. And i dont think anyone here can make a claim that an Ampmaster puts out more water than a pair of Mag 18's. Plus the Mag's are a pressure pump too.

 

[golfish]

I wouldn't make that claim, Two Mag 18's and the Amp Master are very close in GPH. The two Mag 18's do use more then twice the electricity and will add more heat regardless if used externaly or submerged. I'm not knocking Mags because I use them. I also use an Amp Master. I myself try not to comment too much on things I don't use.

"To each his own" you have ideas on how you do things and I have my own ideas. Both ways will work just fine.

 

[Ritteri&Bubbles]

Wouldnt make what claim? 2 Mag 18's = 3600gph. 1 Ampmaster = 3000gph. As far as electricity we are only talking about 1 amp vs. 2.6 amps roughly, either way its very minimal, and both setups wont kill your electric bill. 1 single Iwalki 55rlt uses more current than either setup.As far as the Mag's heating the water, that is very minimal. Touch a Mag. Its barely warm to the touch, unless you have something very wrong with your pump. But the claim here is that 2 pumps(reliable pumps that is) are better than one, and give less chance of disaster from the aformentioned clogging/failing possiblilities. I liked the Ampmaster, but for my needs it didnt live up to them. 2 of them would be a great setup for a very large tank with multiple overflows and returns, but on a smaller setup. A pair of Mags or Sedra's would be a better choice I think.