Question for the chemistry guyz...

[Tonyscoots84]

hey guys i have a really good question that ive been trying to fix myself but i cant seem to do it....

as all of you know i started my tank about a month and 1/2 ago... i used 2 buckets of esv sand and i am dosing at 40 with the nautilus II doser... which equals 280 ml per day... this is crazy... my alk is staying stable at 9.3 and my calcium if i leave it on the doser will raise within a couple of days to 500...

my question is what gives that this tank is taking up so much alkalinity.... i never used to dose this much in my 75 gallon and i had alot more corals in it..

here are some things that i do...

i used 2 buckets of the esv fine grade sand
run phosar (like phosban)
run carbon (tlf hydrocarbon)
ball of cheato
plenty of flow 2 x tunze 6100's on a multicontroller

my levels
ph 8.2
temp 78-81
salinity 1.026
nitrates below 5....

some of the sand did clump in some areas

i was dosing the alk into the refugium part of the sump which i now moved to the return part of the sump to see if maybe that did anything which it didnt... there was very little residual on one of my heaters which is in the refugium part of the sump as well... any ideas would greatly be appreciated cause im out of em... theres no way this tank should be taken up so much alk a day after this amount of time...

my guess would of been the sand but i dun think so...

again any help would be greatly appreciated...

thanks guyz..

 

[herman]

I still think that you got the recipe wrong. There is just no way that you would be dosing that much otherwise. I can give you a bottle of each esv part for you to try out. But follow the calculator.

 

[Tonyscoots84]

:lol2: hermz, i followed the recipe to the T .... i guess once this batch is done im going to try to use non baked baking soda and see what happens with that.... im really at lost and i def. do not think this tank should be taking up as much as it is....

someone also mentioned abiotic precipitation of the alk part but if it was i would see alot of white around heaters and pumps which i do not...

 

[herman]

When chefs follow a recipe it always comes out being different. 280ml is about what kedd uses in his tank. How can it be that you would be using the same amount.

Seriously get the esv. Ill pay for it I just want to know. Do it for my peace of mind.If by then its still the same we can discuss why.

 

[Tonyscoots84]

When chefs follow a recipe it always comes out being different. 280ml is about what kedd uses in his tank. How can it be that you would be using the same amount.

i wish i knew why but i dont... 1st im gonna try making another batch of 2 part but the 2nd recipe will be used... see if that does anything... if that is a no go then i will try the esv stuff :dead1: and see what happens..

see the thing is i understand that 2 tanks are different like my 75 gallon and 120 gallon but i had starboard loaded with coralline algae, back glass loaded with coralline algae and my rocks were loaded with coralline algae... and i was only dosing 80ml a day with a ton of frags in it... now i got sand and the usage went up big time....

how many dkh should randys 2 part be when tested with a salifert kit.... the 1st recipe :scratch:

 

[herman]

Tony, my way is free!!! So it must be good

 

[Tonyscoots84]

:lol2: im not gonna make you buy esv for me :sigh:.... :lol2:... let me try the non baked version... ill make a batch tonite and see how it goes.... thanks for the offer hermz... i can always count on ya ...

 

[ShaunW]

With the two-part, the alk part doesn't dissolve well. I pour mine into a stainless steel pot and heat it (not too much) to completely dissolve it . Then let it cool O/N.

 

[herman]

Dont waste your time on making the other version. Youll have the same outcome. GET THE ESV!!!! Gimme your paypal addy.

 

[Tonyscoots84]

Dont waste your time on making the other version. Youll have the same outcome. GET THE ESV!!!! Gimme your paypal addy.

hermz dude ill jus go out and buy it :kiss: :lol2: thanks though :biggrinpa

shaun i had the water heated at 90 degrees and was mixing very vigorously and adding a very little at a time... there was no leftover residual on the bottom of the 5 gallon bucket after all was added...

 

[SethKim]

Hey,
After reading Kedd's thread, I'm more careful about writing this message ^^

In seawater, alkalinity (dKH) and calcium are in inverse relationship!! U raise too much alk your Ca2+ will drop, you raise Ca2+ your alk drops. Thus, it isn't so much about trying to hit the numbers ie 9.0~9.8 dKH & 400~450ppm, but rather trying to find the equlibrium point for your specific tank and its needs.

You said that you put two buckets of esv arigonite sand? and that sands been clumping right? Perhaps are you too focused on hitting that magical number 500ppm Ca2+???.
Fresh bucket of arigonite sand is good stuff but "dead" and doesn't "biofilm" making it neg. charge.
500ppm Ca2+ mean you got lots of cation freely floating looking for anion, so you have a strong bonding between your Calcium and sand, leaving you concrete! hehe.

So in my opinion, try to drop your calcium level 400 ~ 425 ppm, and as your tank progresses really look for the equlibrium point!! ^^
otherwise you'll end up with concrete slab in your new tank ^^

let me know if you need more details i.e equations and what not~ and I'll choke you ^^

Sincerely,

 

[Tonyscoots84]

hey seth i had the calcium at 425 and alk at 9.3 before i forgot to take off the calcium part after 2 days... since its a dual dosing pump they both dose the same amount at the same time... i understand what your saying but when my calcium was at 425ppm i was still dosing the same in alk and it stayed at 9.3dkh... what gives...

 

[jhale]

Tony when I got the esv sand, Bob (the owner of esv) dropped it off at Pratt and he cautioned me about watching my Mg levels the first few weeks while using it. He said the calcium carbonate will bond with the mg and remove it from the water, if it removes to much you get the clumping you descibed.
I know you have a Mg test kit, so what have the levels been at? I found my Mg was low for the first two months, now it's been stable, but I still have to boost it up quite a bit. I never had to with the BB tank.
If the Mg is out of wack that could be the cause of your large 2 part usage.

 

[Tonyscoots84]

Tony when I got the esv sand, Bob (the owner of esv) dropped it off at Pratt and he cautioned me about watching my Mg levels the first few weeks while using it. He said the calcium carbonate will bond with the mg and remove it from the water, if it removes to much you get the clumping you descibed.
I know you have a Mg test kit, so what have the levels been at? I found my Mg was low for the first two months, now it's been stable, but I still have to boost it up quite a bit. I never had to with the BB tank.
If the Mg is out of wack that could be the cause of your large 2 part usage.

sorry forgot to mention what mg level was... i tested 2 days ago and it was at 1350.... for the most part the magnesium only dropped low once and that was at about week 2 when it was at 1100... i riased it back up and havent had a problem with it since... so

 

[jhale]

so it's not the Mg :scratchch
that was all I had, sorry T.

 

[Tonyscoots84]

thanks J.... the only thing i could think of other then the sand absorbing a massive amount of alk is that maybe the recipe was a lil messed up.. but im pretty sure i followed it exactly... but im changing it out and using recipe 2 and did exactly what it said... 1 and 1/8 cup per gallon... doing a 5 gallon bucket so i did 5 cups and 5x 1/8 cups and i am know heating the water.... if that dont work im going to buy the esv alk and see how that goes... if thats a no go then sand will be coming out of the tank ...

 

[SethKim]

I don't know~ ^^
something just doesn't sound right...or I'm just not fully getting the picture. If you are dosing like 280ml of part I your SG must be going up so check like every day.
I'm just trying to draw some senarios b4 I go to sleep.

senario #1, too much calcium, --> drop Alk increase pH --> clumping with sand,-->so add more Alk to boost dKH???
senario #2, too much Alk,--> need to increase Calcium-->supersaturation...
senarion#3 when par I & II go in at the same time, near one another, it would react with one another saturation.

just double check all your parameters ^^

You might be able to keep equilibrium around 7.4dKH

Sincerely,

now I got chemical rxn in my head thats buggin!

 

[herman]

Tony was dosing five buttloads of 2 part in his last tank also. Please Tony try the ESV. Youll be happy you did.

Im quite sure that there is nothing wrong with your parameters or your sand. I know you test that at least three times a day. Youll be thankful when you are dosing 30-45ml a day.

Go with me on this one T

 

[regal]

Tony, your twin doser uses the aquamedic pumps right? They don't necessarily dose the same amount. I have 2 of them and one dose more than the other. I know b/c the calcium container empties out a lot quicker than the alk.

 

[spykes]

tony now you got a butt load of sodium ions and you'll have less chloride ions. When a molecule is dissolved in a solution such as saltwater it breaks into ion this is the form corals consume at. The free amount of chloride and sodium makes NaCl. If your base ions do not completely break down because of a saturated solution of one part. You'll get a imbalance.