Help - Very high Alk low pH, and low Ca

[cybermeez]

My pH has been dropping for the past several weeks while my calcium reactor was on the fritz (discovered it was a busted impeller). It continued to drop even with water changes and became increasingly unstable. So, I increased the Alk part of the ESV 2 part I was using until I could get the reactor fixed this weekend.

After a 50% water change over the course of this past 3 days, the pH was still low and upon checking the Alk last night I discovered it was at 20 (!), Ca was at 300 and Mg at 1200. Did a water change this morning and that dropped the pH to 7.8.

I've never had this sort of problem before. How do I stabilized the pH while I bring the Alk down and the Ca and Mg up? What is Alk this high doing to my critters and how quickly do I need to/can I get this under control?

 

[prattreef]

Something is not right--I find it nearly impossible ( totally impossible?) that you have low pH with you Alk. that high.

 

[cowfish]

Something is not right--I find it nearly impossible ( totally impossible?) that you have low pH with you Alk. that high.

+1

Are you sure your test kit is accurate?
Are you running a skimmer?
Is there water movement in the tank - powerheads, etc.?
Have you checked the effluent from the calcium reactor?

 

[Buck0land]

retest with a different test kit.

 

[rrudo74901]

Recheck your alk again. Doesn't seem right.

Try using Ph buffer or an air stone in the sump/fuge area to get the Ph up over 8.

Magnesiuim isn't super low but should be between 1300-1400, closer to the 1400 if you want calc up at 440-460.
Since you have the ESV 2 part, use component 2, calcium and dose 25 ppm per day for the next 2 days. Also dose mag to allow the water to "hold" more calcium without it precipitating out. With the alk that high, calcium will precip when you dose so go slowly.

 

[cybermeez]

The pH reading is from my AC3 probe. I calibrated it about a month ago and double checked it with an API pH test at that time. I'll do it again tonight. I am using a skimmer and water movement is good. I'll also check the reactor effluent tonight.

I suppose the Alk test could be off as I've had it for a while. I'll grab some new kits today, though I may not be able to get my hands on the good ones like Salifert etc.

If the Alk is truly 20, would the critters be showing some sort of distress? Inversely, if the pH really is that low wouldn't I also be seeing signs? Corals look fine w/ polyps extended, fire shrimp and fish are all acting normal.

 

[prattreef]

If the Alk. was that high, things would not be happy. A pH of 7.8 isn't all that terribly low though obviously it is lower than you want it to be.

 

[rrudo74901]

If the Alk. was that high, things would not be happy. A pH of 7.8 isn't all that terribly low though obviously it is lower than you want it to be.

+1, I highly doubt your alk is that high unless you dosed part 1 HUGE and tested right after and got a bad sample. But you have a probe so thats not it. I suspect the probe is off.

Calc has to come up to get an increase in growth on the coral.
I had a similar issue about 2 months ago, hammer coral defalted and died in a week, calc was below 200. Once I stabilized the calc, alk and mag levels, all the corals are more inflated and growing. Magnesium is the key to raising the alk to 9-11 and keeping calc above 400. Get mag to 1350-1450 and you can bring the other two up through dosing.

 

[cybermeez]

I got some new test kits and tested the water tonight, though the only KH kit I could find was labled as being for freshwater. Even so, the Alk results were virtually identical and the Sera kit I already had doesn't expire for more than a year. So I'm pretty confident the Alk is around 20. The pH however is 8.4 so the AC3's probe is off (it was reading 7.85 when I checked it this evening). Since I calibrated it recently I have to assume either it or the calibration solution has gone bad.

I did another 20 gallon water change this morning adding only some extra calcium to help get the ionic balance closer to what it should be. It measured 440 tonight. I didn't test the magnesium.

I'm going to try and get to one of the saltwater shops on the west side tomorrow and see if I can snag a Salifert Alk kit or something similar. In the meantime - assuming the Alk is 20 - how do I correct this super high Alk level and what are the ramifications for the animals in the tank?

 

[guarda]

You can borrow my Elos Kh test if you need to. Should still be good.

 

[cybermeez]

You can borrow my Elos Kh test if you need to. Should still be good.

Cool, thanks. If I can't get one from the shop tomorrow, I'll shoot you a PM.

 

[rrudo74901]

I would have assumed with Alk at 20 your tank would have major Calc precip but you are holding at 440 which is great. Mag might be off the charts to maintain that level.
So, keep up the wc's everyday or every other day and check Alk daily. Mine drops about 1 dkh per day just through absorption. if everything in the tank is happy, corals in particular, let it come down.
Are you dosing anything?

 

[cybermeez]

I would have assumed with Alk at 20 your tank would have major Calc precip but you are holding at 440 which is great. Mag might be off the charts to maintain that level.
So, keep up the wc's everyday or every other day and check Alk daily. Mine drops about 1 dkh per day just through absorption. if everything in the tank is happy, corals in particular, let it come down.
Are you dosing anything?

The corals seem fine with good polyp extension, even the new ones I got at the swap. I'd expect they would be the first to show signs of stress given what they had to go through on their journey to my tank.

Until last night, I was dosing ESV 2 part with the intent of stopping once I got my newly repaired calcium reactor dialed in. Today with the water change I only added the calcium part of the ESV suppliments and doubled it since the Ca was low yesterday. The calcium reactor has been running since Friday and has taken a lot of tweaking (it's a Korallin). I still don't have it quite there yet, so I don't know how much it's contributing to the current levels.

 

[rrudo74901]

ESV part 2 is only calcium so that's not it.
I have no experience with the reactor so I cannot comment.

As I understand it, large swings in Alk are very stressful for coral, so if they are open and extended, the Alk should fall on its own unless the reactor is contributing.

I dosed 7 ml of Alk, calc and mag the part 5 days and my Alk jumped from 9.8 to 12 but I stopped dosing calc the last 2 days, it fell from 450 to 390 and I suspect precip. Mag levels fell from 1400 to 1300, which lowers the waters ability to "hold" the calc. So I am just dosing mag and calc for a few days to balance the levels.

I am curious if you can get the magnesium tested on your water. Just to see the relation.

 

[cybermeez]

ESV part 2 is only calcium so that's not it.
I have no experience with the reactor so I cannot comment.

As I understand it, large swings in Alk are very stressful for coral, so if they are open and extended, the Alk should fall on its own unless the reactor is contributing.

I dosed 7 ml of Alk, calc and mag the part 5 days and my Alk jumped from 9.8 to 12 but I stopped dosing calc the last 2 days, it fell from 450 to 390 and I suspect precip. Mag levels fell from 1400 to 1300, which lowers the waters ability to "hold" the calc. So I am just dosing mag and calc for a few days to balance the levels.

I am curious if you can get the magnesium tested on your water. Just to see the relation.

I'll test the Mg tomorrow and let you know what I get. I want to confirm 100% on the Alk, so I'm not going to be completely sure until I get a proper, new test kit tomorrow.

 

[cybermeez]

I finally managed to get my hands on a new set of Red Sea's Alk and MG tests. I tested this morning and got the following results:

KH=14
Mg=1600
Ca=660

So, the KH has begun to drop and I assume it's because the animals ion the tank are using it.

The Ca has gone up tho I have not changed the water since Monday nor added any ESV calcium. What this tells me is that the newly repaired calcium reactor has begun working, so I dialed it back a little.

The Mg has also gone up which could be due to using a new test or the newly functioning calcium reactor.

Meanwhile the AC3 pH probe continues to read 7.85. So, I'm going to replace it with a new one as I imagine they do wear out after a while.

Now that the Alk is dropping do I need to be concerned about the high Ca and Mg?

 

[prattreef]

Why don't you post this in the chemistry forum where Boomer will see it.

 

[rrudo74901]

Holy Crap, those numbers are off the charts.
I would stop the reactor for a few days and either do a 20-25% WC or let those levels come down on their own as long as you don't see any ill effects with your corals.

Maybe try adding an airstone in the sump to assist bringing the Ph up a little. 7.85 isn't terrible and if its stable there, I would focus on getting the other parameters back in range. Your corals will consume them on their own.

That high mag # is what is allowing the calc and alk to co-exist at those high numbers. As mag falls, hopefully the other two will as well.

Are you seeing really good growth on your corals? Or are they affected by the inflated numbers?

 

[cybermeez]

The corals and other critters look/act fine. The pH isn't 7.85, it's what the broken probe says it is. It's really closer to 8.4 during the day.

Thanks for the suggestion Randy. I just posted over there and directed him here for a gander.

 

[irvp13]

Also with those levels youre going to have precipitation make, sure you clean your pumps, impelers and even tubing.
Keep with the water changes, until those coma back down.