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danmhippo

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Does soft water necessarily become low pH?

I recently want to drop my planted tank pH down from 7.5 to 6.8. My tap water is quite hard, so I bought the softwater exchange resin for aquariums, hoping that I could bring down the pH the natural way. Well, a week gone by, hardness did reduced a bit, but pH remain unchanged, without any water changes in between.

Am I on the right direction? Reducing alkalinity, will it eventually translate as reduced pH?
 

danmhippo

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pH of 7.4, this is pretty constant, light on or off. I have CO2 that goes on during the day when the lights are on, and it shuts off when the lights are off.
 
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Anonymous

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I'm pretty retarded regarding sorting out these chemistry questions, although I've worked out the answers a zillion times.

Can you just mix your tap water with ro?
 
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Anonymous

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doublette":lprw8sw3 said:
If you increase your CO2 output that will bring down your ph. Can I ask why you want to drop it?

From what I understand, they may want to drop ph to induce spawning.

With the added co2 here and ph still remaining high, it seems there is a lot of buffering in the water. Perhaps backing off on water changes (if being done) will allow the plants to bio accumulate those and soften the water. But then water changes with soft water should help even more.

I have heard of people using softened water to induce spawing so I guess it is possible. Kinda simulates the spring snow runoff in the wild. Or perhaps what you are doing just needs a little more time to fully take effect.
 

danmhippo

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I am trying to mimic natural environment of the Cardinal Tetra, although I know they can tolerate 7.5. But just like operating a machine, you do not want to push it to the limit, and make it as the norm. I also have lace plants that prefer soft acidic water, which, I would like it to thrive and propagate.........Can sell for good "dinero" in Taiwan......

I guess it's because I am adding CO2 only during the day when the photosynthesis is most active, where CO2 will get the most benefit, that's why my pH does not change from day to night.

So, add CO2 to reduce pH route is out.

What's next? Should I start using those pH down solutions? I do not know what it does or how it works, thus really do not want to add it to my tank. Heh, trained habit from the reefing days.....
 
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Anonymous

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Hey, since this is an OT forum anyway; do people in Taiwan collect their own reef organisms? Are there reefs or other interesting habitats nearby?
 

danmhippo

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Yes there are, South of Taiwan has the most coral congregation, however Taiwan laws are not providing enough protections for coral and reef habitats. Sadly, ignorant people often collect these "very pretty fishies" back and put in their goldfish bowls with collected saltwater and expect them to grow up like guppies. And don't forget, Taiwanese are basically Chinese, and we eat everything, and I mean anything that swims crawls, or even anchored to rocks. (Mantis Shrimps are really good eats!)

SW tanks and Reef tanks has not took off at Taiwan yet. Most of the stores only carries FW fish with planted tanks being the top notch setup. Equipments sold locally are not good enough (IMHO) to be used for SW or even reefing.

Most of the fish that you could catch here can be found in Phillipines as well, as we are not that far away.......(Less then an hour by plane).


-----------------------------------------


OK, back to the subject, What should I do with my water? Space is scarce in Taipei, RODI is out of question. Even if there are space, the water pressure is pretty low, I don't think RODI can be used in my house.....
 

danmhippo

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Most of the LFS that I visited has one time or another tried to carry SW fish, and they all failed miserably due to lack of knowledge and proper equipments. SW fish eventuallly disappeared in Taiwan LFS a few years back.
 

gpodio

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I would not suggest using any PH down product, most are just phosphates and will only bring about new problems. I suggest mixing RO with tap water to get your KH down to around 3, this will yeald a nice PH for cardinals and still keep PH from fluctuating too much with the addition of CO2. While CO2 alone can be used to lower PH, you can't... or shouldn't exceed 30ppm of CO2, so there's always a limit to just how low you can go before you have no other choice other than to reduce KH.

Further, it is my opinion that most of these fish are not actually triggered by the drop in PH, rather the drop in hardness or KH (potentially also GH and TDS). While a drop in KH does bring along a drop in PH, a drop in PH caused by an increase in CO2 will not alter KH. Also, unlike in reef tanks, I doubt you will be able to rely on plants to soften the water, you would need to not do water changes for way too long, bringing about problems of accumulation of nitrates and other organic substances.

Now if RO or other sources of distilled or natuarally softer waters such as natural springs are out of the question... I'd say leave the KH and PH where it is, you are not stressing the cardinals in any way, they will adapt better to a higher yet stable PH than a fluctuating one which would be likely if softening chemicals are used. The only thing you may want to try is adding some peat in a filter bag in your filter, this will reduce the PH for you without the problems phosphate buffers can bring about. Your plants by the way will likely be uneffected by the change in KH and/or PH. Just because some plants come from softer waters doesn't mean they do better there, they may have the competitive advantage of being able to cope with an inferior source of carbonates but nearly all will do just as well in harder waters.

Hope that helps
Giancarlo
 
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Anonymous

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it is possible to have hard water w/a low ph, and soft water w/a high pH

use peat , dan :wink:

it's a natural ion exchanger, in addition to adding alot of the organic (humic) acids the tetras and the lace plant enjoy


(ps-make sure you have some good but mild current for the lace plant-this will facilitate keeping the lace opnings clean and free of algae-oto cats are also highly recommended)

hth
 

gpodio

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vitz":1y1uieyi said:
it is possible to have hard water w/a low ph, and soft water w/a high pH

Yes. There is at times some misunderstanding regarding what "soft" actually refers to. Soft water usually refers to calcium hardness or GH, which as we know has no effect on PH. Carbonate hardness on the other hand is what effects PH (along with CO2 of course). So yes, you can have a high GH and low KH, resulting in hard water with a low PH.

This is a good link covering many water chemistry topics:
http://www.aquariumsite.com/freshwater/chemistry.php

Giancarlo
 

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