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Lenny718

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I need some help guys. The last 2 weeks or so my Hippo Tang has started to get black spots and it is getting worse every day. I've been in the hobby for some time and have never seen it this bad. I know as they age they tend to get them around the face ,Some say from not enough swimming room?? The fish is currently in my 45g cube and if she makes it will be going in my 150g cube next week. I've had this fish a little over a year now and purchased her when she was about a quarter in size and she is now roughly 3 inches or so. As for feeding I give Nori everyday and switch from spectrum pellets to mysis shrimp daily. All other fish appear to be healthy.
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TRIGGERMAN

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Could be a fungus or something..my clown got all brown and spotty it looked real ugly I started vitamin C dosing and he looks sooo much better now. Look into it bro it works. It helps build up the fish's immune system.
 

aznt1217

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Hey Lenny, I actually have the same issue. Unfortunately I think it's the case of early HLLE. A lot of theories surrounding this stuff. I am pretty sure mine has it and it's due to relatively poor water quality. I am still recovering from my tank crash and my fish took a beating but they have been good so far. Best thing you can do is continually feed it with enriched foods. I feed Thera-A and garlic dipped mysis. The standard IMO for improving the immune system on fish. My Hippo tang also refuses to eat any vegetable matter which probably doesn't help either because there's no balanced diet.

My Hippo Tang has also developed more of this with age (she's about 3 now). My other Hippos whom I have sold to other reefers didn't have this issue.

Here is mine currently. She's always had 2 large holes in her head since a baby when I got her. It's the other marks that are the HLLE ( I think ). You probably don't see it as much here, but it's weird because all the marks are on the other side..

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aznt1217

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I think his fish look fine in terms of color and size. The Yellow Tang Fin problem could be either from fighting or Fin Rot which seems to be a symptom of HLLE. Lenny, if I were you I would start doing a water change, a pretty large one as well to decrease the nitrate and phosphate levels.

I will be doing this myself relatively soon. A 20% change and then a 30% 2 weeks after. I've found that with past fish (I had a different yellow tang) it allowed him to regain his fins and with my previous Hippo Tang he regained his full color and some scar marks healed.
 

KathyC

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A couple of interesting pieces to read:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/sp/index.php


and this from Scott W. Michael

Head and Lateral Line Erosion - by Scott W. Michael Photos by Amanda Dellow

The lateral line is made up of organs located on the head (head-canal-system) and along the trunk (trunk-canal system). Some fishes (like gobies) lack lateral line organs, but most are well equipped with sensory pores and papillae on their heads. The lateral line organ consists of neuromasts located on the body surface (fee neuromasts) or in shallow pits, grooves, or canal (most reef bony fishes have the latter arrangement).

The neuromast is made up of a cupula, a long jelly-filled projection that ensheathes sensory hairs. These hairs are embedded in a sensory cell under the epidermis and are stimulated when the cupula is bent. Although the neuromasts continuously send nerve impulses to the brain, the frequency of impulses increases when the cupula is flexed in one direction and decreases when it is bent the opposite way.

This organ provides a sense of "distant touch." Because water is a noncompressible medium, molecules move when it is displaced or disturbed. The lateral line organ detects these movements, allowing a fish to gauge approximately how fast an object is approaching and how far away it is.

That brings us to the malady head and lateral line erosion (HLLE), which is also known as "hole-in-the head disease." This is a very unattractive condition that is common in certain groups of fishes. Although this is usually not immediately fatal to the fish, it can turn a radiant individual into a real eye sore! In a highly advanced stage, the ailing fish may become weak and have a suppressed appetite. Some groups of fishes that seem to be especially susceptible to this condition are the angelfishes, surgeonfish?€™s and Moorish idols. However, I have seen species representing numerous families suffering from this malady, including groupers, comets, dottybacks, grunts, butterflyfishes, damselfishes and wrasses.

Lateral line erosion usually begins to manifest itself after the fish has been in the home aquarium for several weeks to several months - this seems is in part a function of the fish species. In most cases, the first sign of the condition are light blotches on the head, namely around the eyes and nostrils. The skin around the pores of trunk-canal system then begins to erode exposing pigment free flesh. In more advanced cases, all the pigment on the face may deteriorate and the fins and even the gill covers may also begin to deteriorate.

So what causes this common malady? Some authors have suggested that HLLE is caused by a parasite in the genus Spironucleus - a close relative of the freshwater dinoflagellate, Hexamita that is thought to cause this condition in freshwater fishes (Bassler, 1996). It is thought that this parasite infects the digestive tract, causing stress and the associated loss of tissue around the lateral line organ. Bassler suggests using Metronidazole and antibiotics to treat the problem. However, in other studies, where fishes with advanced HLLE were examined (externally and internally) significant numbers of parasites were not found and this cause was ruled out (e.g., Blasiola 1989).

Another possible cause of HLLE is inadequate nutrition. Blasiola (1989) reported that Pacific blue tangs (Paracanthurus hepatus) with advanced HLLE that were given flake food supplemented with Vitamin C showed signs of improvement. Also, other aquarists have reported that Vitamin C supplementation did prevent or reverse this condition. Collins (1995) states that in his experience it is a lack of Vitamin A, not Vitamin C that is a primary cause of this condition. He reports having successfully reversed HLLE by increasing the amount of Vitamin A in the diets of surgeonfish?€™s. In his report, the water quality of the aquarium where the ailing fish were kept was good, they did not use carbon on the tank and they fed their fish a varied diet that included lots of Vitamin C, but still their Atlantic blue tangs (Acanthurus coeruleus) suffered from HLLE.
They began adding more Vitamin A to the diet, in the form of fresh broccoli, and the tangs were free of HLLE in six to eight weeks. He found that surgeonfish of varying sizes readily ate the flowerets of the broccoli, while only the larger acanthurids would feed on the woodier stalk. They also added fresh peas and shredded carrots to the diet (that latter is messier to feed then broccoli).

It has also been reported that the removal of valuable trace minerals by, or the leaching of harmful products from, activated carbon may incite the condition (T.
Frakes personal communication, 1992). Recently, I had the good fortune of being able to spend sometime with one of my favorite "fish guys," Jay Hemdal. We were talking with Omaha Henry Doorly Zoo aquarist, Mitch Carl, about a chronic problem they have been having in their largest display aquarium. Although sharks and rays do well in this enclosure, all the bony fishes suffer from advanced HLLE. Jay speculated that carbon dust might be a culprit in cases of this malady he had observed in the past. Mitch shared that they did have a problem with carbon dust, which was accidentally purged into the tank several years ago. After that, the HLLE had become a chronic problem. A chemist, John Austin, who was also involved in our conversation, suggested that the carbon powder would act as an irritant to the fishes integument, causing irritation within the neuromast pores (where the carbon dust may actually accumulate). This could result in the skin sloughing off along the head and trunk canal system.

Although more study is required to see if carbon dust is responsible for advanced cases of HLLE, I have seen and heard of other instances where fishes were suffering from HLLE in aquariums where carbon was constantly employed.

In one pet store I visited, almost all the fishes kept in the tanks were suffering from HLLE! Upon removing the carbon, the fish recovered. When employing carbon in your filters, you should be sure to rinse off as much of the dust as possible. Also, change it regularly so it does not break down and end up in your tank. It may be that other irritants, like silica, could cause HLLE as well. More research is necessary to confirm this.

Researcher, Dr. Robert Hildreth, reported that by employing an EcoSystem Aquarium filter with Miracle Mud® substrate he was able to stop and even reverse HLLE in two surgeonfish species (see www.ecosystemaquarium.com). These surgeonfish?€™s were healed in four to six weeks after being placed in a tank with this type of filter. In his article, Dr. Hildreth makes no claims as to how this filter prevents HLLE. But he once told me it may have to do with the increased presence of trace minerals and elements, like iodine, in aquariums that use the Miracle Mud® filtrant. A lack of iodine in the diet is known to cause goiter in fishes and may also be somehow related to HLLE.

Another cause of HLLE may be high nitrates. Frakes (1993) reported that nitrate levels higher than 160mg/l NO3-N might cause this condition.

In conclusion, there are possibly a number of causative agents when it comes to HLLE. The primary cause may be stress, including physical stress (e.g., irritants like carbon dust), malnutrition (e.g., lack of certain vitamins), mineral deficiencies (e.g., iodine), parasitic infection (i.e., Spironucleus) and poor water quality (e.g., high nitrate levels). The key then is providing your fish with as stress free of an environment as possible, making sure to address the specific stress factors discussed above.
Good luck and happy fish watching!

References:

Bassler, G. 1996. Diseases in Marine Aquarium Fish. Bassler Biofish, Belgium, 96 pp.

Blasiola, G. C. 1989. Lateral line erosion. Pet Age December (1989): 19-21.

Collins, S. 1995. Dietary control of HLLE in blue tangs. Sea Scope, 12 (Summer): 4.

Frakes, T. 1993. Nitrate Menace? Sea Scope 10 (Winter): 1-2.
 

qy7400

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Malnutrition and stress..

"All other fish appear to be healthy."
I do not agree, your yellow tang is not looking to hot man!

I have to agree with this, it looks like the yellow has HLLE and the hippo black ich. Is there an aggressive fish in this tank nipping at these two as the fins look all nipped/ripped.
 

Lenny718

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I have to agree with this, it looks like the yellow has HLLE and the hippo black ich. Is there an aggressive fish in this tank nipping at these two as the fins look all nipped/ripped.
There are only 4 fish in the tank, the 2 tangs and 2 clowns and there is no fighting or nipping whats so ever. As far as water quality I do a 20% water changes once a week. My levels are 0 ammonia , 0 nitrite , 0 nitrate, cal 420, alk 9 and mag 1350. As far as the yellow tang goes his fin was nipped when I bought him and knowing it would grow back I bought him at a discount. And I've seen black ich and it looks nothing like this, I'm leaning more towards hille.
 

aznt1217

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It's definitely HLLE not black ich for sure. Lenny you are a good man for doing 20% water changes once a week ;D. I haven't done mine in 3 months ugh.

Anyway, as I mentioned maybe you can try the whole incremental water change approach to turn the entire tank volume over in a month or so. It's worked for me in the past and I'll be trying it again soon.
 

Lenny718

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It's definitely HLLE not black ich for sure. Lenny you are a good man for doing 20% water changes once a week ;D. I haven't done mine in 3 months ugh.

Anyway, as I mentioned maybe you can try the whole incremental water change approach to turn the entire tank volume over in a month or so. It's worked for me in the past and I'll be trying it again soon.

Thanks ant, like i said I will be setting up my 150 cube next week so between the extra 100 gallons of new water and adding vitaman c and garlic to the food it will clear up. If not I'll just have to fry him up with some olive oil ;)
 

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