Bully Green Chromis and general behavior

[kimbaco6]

Hey there.

Just added my first fish to my new tank yesterday. Since I am a first timer with salt water I do expect many glitches along the way.

So I have 3 green chromis and one yellow coral goby.

I could tell right away that the larger of the three chromis was a bully. He was presumably stressed and nipping at the other fish while in the bag and acclimating to the new water. (By the way, this shipment just came into the store the day prior, which I know can increase stress)

Once in the tank, he calmed down a bit but was still nippy. One of the three (the middle sized one) did seem to be a completely different color to start with (from above was very dark compared to the others) so maybe he was already weaker. Anyway, this morning that guy looks like he has nips all over and he seems to be fading. At what point do I take him out to avoid him suffering, or do I wait until he dies? And should I get rid of the bully chromis (take back to store)?

A strange behavior question, when I turned out the light they all three went straight to the water intake area in the top corner of the tank. Is this normal? This morning with the light on they slowly started to come out and they did eat when I fed them.

Thank you!!!!
Kimberly

 

[Imbarrie]

Do you have any areas in the tank they can use for shelter? Are you sure you have blue green chromis and not blue damsels? What size tank do you have?
I have 4 blue green in my 75 and everyone gets along great.


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[ming]

If there's no place for them to hide when the lights are off, they'll start hiding in the corners when the lights are out. If you had SPS corals, they'll hide in there at night.

The green chromis will fight eat other when there are only a few. They will typically develop a dominance order and the strongest will be the only one left. The school of green chromis needs to be a minimum of 5, but larger schools are better so the bully can't focus all his aggression on singling them out since there are too many, although this method isn't 100% and sometimes you still end up with 1 left. It just gives you better odds

 

[kimbaco6]

My tank is 30 gallons. Yes, definitely they are chromis.
Ok, glad this is normal behavior. I have a few live rocks but nothing substantial yet.
I am basically using these guys to help cycle the tank. Seems to be going well so far.

 

[TripleT]

My tank is 30 gallons. Yes, definitely they are chromis.
Ok, glad this is normal behavior. I have a few live rocks but nothing substantial yet.
I am basically using these guys to help cycle the tank. Seems to be going well so far.

Cycling with fish is kind of cruel. Sounds like LFS advice?

You can save this chromis, and set yourself up for future success, if you get a cheap QT setup in the next day or two.

I would QT the beaten up chromis, and add him back in the future when you also add other fish. Preferably a few more chromis. This helps prevent any one chromis from getting picked on too much.

But what you can do immediately is go to Home Depot with $10, and pick up a bunch of PVC elbows and tees, and throw them in the tank. This will give the beaten up chromis places to take refuge.

If you wait another day it could be too late.

What are you feeding, and how much? Nutrition will also play a big role in helping the poor guy through the stress he's enduring.

Make sure to get some Zoe or Selcon, and soak feedings at least once a day.

 

[JimmyR1rider]

Is the tank cycled? or are you by stated in an earlier post going by the LFS saying to cycle the tank with them? If so there are 2 things that would make me say to find a different place to deal with.
The first being if they told you to cycle your tank with fish- it is cruel to do to them- but thats the stores fault- not yours.

The other being if the store received them and sold them a day later and they never mentioned to quarantine the fish. If they received them the day before they definately didnt QT them and have possibly sold you unhealthy livestock.

Good luck and hope they work their issues out and settle in

 

[kimbaco6]

Great, thanks for the advice.

Today I brought the bully Chromis back to the store which they gladly took back and got a few more so that they will feel more like a school. Maybe that will help. The beatup guy seems to be hanging in there, but he does separate from the school sometimes and go up in the corner. He needs some tlc.

Not sure what LFS is...

Yes, I was thinking that I do need a QT tank, would be a good idea regardless. I will definitely take your advice and create a place for refuge.

Feeding New Life Spectrum marine formula pellets and Arcti Pods, interchangeably.

I have noticed my Goby hasn't eaten yet, is day two, but he did get excited this time during feeding and seemed interested, but then nothing.

 

[kimbaco6]

Gosh, definitely didn't mean to be cruel to my fish. I did have my tank running for a day or so first with live rock and live substrate. I guess now I just have to move forward. Everyone else seems to be doing ok so far, especially the parasitic anemones that hijacked on the live rock, ugh.

The store is really the only one that is reasonably close for me. They seem great and everyone was very helpful - manhattan aquariums. Is there another one you would also suggest as a resource?

 

[TripleT]

Some random tips...

Don't buy any more fish for at least 6 weeks.

Move the fish you have into a QT, where you will do water tests and water changes to keep the water quality acceptable. Ammonia and nitrite are your primary concerns right now. In your QT, they should be undetectable, as they are toxic to fish.

Salifert tests are among the best. Buy those or similar priced ones for accuracy. Do not use test strips... they are not accurate.

10-20 gallon QT sounds like what you need. The smaller the QT, the more frequently you'll need to test and do water changes.

A cheap heater, and an AquaClear 30 hang on filter will do (AquaClear 50 is you go for a 20 gallon QT). And PVC pieces for hiding. No sand or live rock in the QT.

If your display tank isn't showing traces of ammonia yet, put a piece of cooked table shrimp in there, probably for a week or so, until your ammonia starts to climb. Then remove.

Buy some frozen enriched brine shrimp cubes. They are good for enticing fish to eat.

Frozen cubes of Cyclops may also entice him to eat, and your chromis will love it too.

Double check all local fish store (LFS) advice here.

Good luck, and keep asking questions. Also look for stickies on this and other forums for setting up a new tank.

 

[TripleT]

The table shrimp trick is only if you remove all livestock from the tank, relocating them to QT.

Otherwise the table shrimp and subsequent ammonia spike will possibly kill your fish... or stress them terribly at best.

 

[ming]

Considering this is probably her first tank, she likely won't have a QT, so the display tank is the best she has right now. On the bright side, although the only one, since she said she has a "parasitic" anemone, I'm guessing its a aiptasia so its probably Live Rock she bought so it should help with the cycling. I suggest to avoid getting any additional fish, and feed especially sparingly. Get yourself an ammonia and nitrite test kit. Test the water every few days. You'll want to do partial water changes if you can detect ammonia, since its especially deadly to fish. Until you can't detect any ammonia and nitrite, you don't want to add more fish. Since its already live rock, this process can be anywhere from 1-3 months.
If you can return all the chromis back and instead buy more live rock, that would be better and let it cycle. You can add a some fish food to let it cycle a bit if you want. You might see little critters come out of the live rock to eat the fish food.

 

[TripleT]

Cycling requires ammonia and nitrite.

Performing water changes in the display tank to keep these undetectable will interfere with this.

A simple QT is easy to set up, and can quickly pay for itself.

 

[ming]

Sure it does, but it also will kill any fish. Removing them will only slow down the cycling, but the cycling will catch up. Unless hes changing out 100%, which I don't recommend on any tank cycled or not, there will still be some amount of ammonia/nitrite in there to cycle.
A simple QT requires the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate cycle to be complete. Otherwise it is no different then his current tank which is uncycled, but at least his current tank has some live rock to jump start that cycle.

 

[TripleT]

A newly setup QT won't be cycled. Water quality in a new QT will be the result of frequent small water changes, not bacteria.

Similar to QT's in which bacteria are wiped out due to meds/treatments.

 

[ming]

You have a different idea of QT then me. A QT for me is a fully cycled but separate system. Medications such as copper won't kill bacteria.

 

[kimbaco6]

I see there is a major learning curve here, but I will keep learning and moving forward.

Ok, so no more fish for a while, that's fine.

As for the QT, I will look for some posts on here about setting that up, but definitely sounds like the way to go.

I am confused why I would move the fish there for now though. Isn't it good that they are in the tank with the live rock so that the whole ecosystem can get going?

Also, why do I want the ammonia spike?

So far all tests are good - salinity, ph, nitrates, nitrites, ammonia.

 

[Imbarrie]

You are seeing already there is more than one way to do things.
IMO leave the fish where they are. You will stress them more by moving them to yet another uncycled qt tank.
Get some more cured live rock and wait it out. Make sure the live rock is cured.
Do some research on the cycling process of marine aquariums. There is plenty online about it. It will take a few weeks.


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[TripleT]

I see there is a major learning curve here, but I will keep learning and moving forward.

Ok, so no more fish for a while, that's fine.

As for the QT, I will look for some posts on here about setting that up, but definitely sounds like the way to go.

I am confused why I would move the fish there for now though. Isn't it good that they are in the tank with the live rock so that the whole ecosystem can get going?

Also, why do I want the ammonia spike?

So far all tests are good - salinity, ph, nitrates, nitrites, ammonia.

The ammonia spike will be followed by a growth in bacteria population that will aid in turning the ammonia into nitrites. At which point you'll see a nitrite spike.

These spikes will be toxic to your fish, which may or may not survive, and may or may not be inflicted with long term health problems.

Google "nitrogen cycle" if you're interested in learning more.... you'll find lots of results.

If you set up a QT, you can maintain the water quality in your QT with frequent small water changes. You would move all of your fish there, or only the one that you mentioned that was being beaten up.

At this point, with either approach, there will be some stress involved for your fish.

 

[kimbaco6]

Ok, I am going to set up a QT tank and get it cycling so that I can use in the future if necessary. The fish are going to stay where they are and we'll see how it goes.

Sadly, the beaten up guy passed last night, but the others including the shrimp seem ok so far.

Thanks for all the advice. I'll read up on the prior posts so as not to bug with every little question.

Kimberly

 

[cthoughts1]

Kimberly,

I have a good book that I read prior to starting this hobby. You are welcome to it if you'd like. Doing this is a little more complicated than just putting fish, rock and water together and it requires a lot of time and patience.. Let me know if you'd like the book I can make myself available for you to pick it up, or if I'm in your area I can drop it off for you. PM me.

-E