Help! Angle has Ich

[Tonyscoots84]

its ok, i dont give good advice it just worked for me thats all. nite everyone

happy reefing.

and good luck with the angel.

 

[gforce6]

I would say ich for fish is more like flu to the human. Flu can be cure by either medicine or good immune system all depends on human's health and environment.

If your water condition is good and fish is healthy, fish will fight off the ich with supplement of Garlic(help build immune system). However, with poor water condition and poor health of fish will needs some medicine. I agree with

Time is an issue with ich

, you better make up mind as soon as you can.

I lost my powder blue by ich because I couldn't get him out of my tank last month.
Since that happen, I quarantine my new fish before I put it in main tank. So far, I quarantine two fish successfully and there is Achillies Tang in my 20G quarantine tank now. I hope this one make it to main tank.

 

[Tonyscoots84]

that is true. but to bad he cant get the fish in a quarantine tank. but n e ways going back to sleep gotta wake up at 5 nite everyone

 

[pmui]

thank you all for the suggestions, I will read up on the links provided. Two reason I can move the fish: 1.too much rock work, 2. i dont' have a qt/hospital tank setup.
thanks all.
Peter

 

[marrone]

thank you all for the suggestions, I will read up on the links provided. Two reason I can move the fish: 1.too much rock work, 2. i dont' have a qt/hospital tank setup.
thanks all.
Peter

It doesn't take much to setup a qt/hospital tank. All you need is either an empty tank or rubbermaid container. Fill it up and run either a PH, air pump or small filter to move water around. Then just add copper or do hypos.

 

[marrone]

It' funny there are people out there that still don't want to accept Garlic as a cure or some thing that does have an affect on curing ich. The answer that is usually given is that "well there hasn't been any research" or "what has been done show that it doesn't alway work". The fact is there have been people that have used it and it did work, maybe not all the time but it did work. Now it doesn't kill the ich but what it seems to do is help the fish build up its immune system and most important keeps the fish eating. All this adds up to letting the fish fight off the ich.

By the way it's good to keep a light on or near the tank, you don't need to keep the lights on in the tank, as this will keep the fish from going to sleep. Usually when the fish goes to sleep it's body function slow down causing the ich to take even more of a hold against the fish.

By the way Copper doesn't alway work in curing ich. There are strain of ich that seem to be able to survie it and wind up killing all the fish, or most of them, and causing wipe out in the tank.

 

[pecan2phat]

So you guys want to hear my experience with No Sick Fish, I know that the participants on this thread over at RC don't!
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=595224&perpage=25&pagenumber=25

 

[Deanos]

So you guys want to hear my experience with No Sick Fish, I know that the participants on this thread over at RC don't!
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=595224&perpage=25&pagenumber=25

Please post your experience. I don't feel like reading through 33 pages :bigeyes2: to catch up. :thanks:

 

[kimoyo]

By the way Copper doesn't alway work in curing ich. There are strain of ich that seem to be able to survie it and wind up killing all the fish, or most of them, and causing wipe out in the tank.

Where are the references for this? Are you talking about hypo?

It' funny there are people out there that still don't want to accept Garlic as a cure or some thing that does have an affect on curing ich. The answer that is usually given is that "well there hasn't been any research" or "what has been done show that it doesn't alway work". The fact is there have been people that have used it and it did work, maybe not all the time but it did work. Now it doesn't kill the ich but what it seems to do is help the fish build up its immune system and most important keeps the fish eating. All this adds up to letting the fish fight off the ich.

I've seen many threads where people used garlic and lost the fish. Is this a 50% cure, 75%, 25% or what? How is this a cure if it only works 25% of the time. And is there any chance that some of the other actions taken could account for it working. How about when people do nothing and the fish survive.

Copper attacks the ich parasite when its not on the fish. Ich (like inverts) cannot survive in small amounts of copper. The ich isn't killed when its on the fish but when the ich falls off. It takes 3-7 days for the ich to fall off the fish. How exactly does the garlic kill the ich?

 

[kimoyo]

It doesn't take much to setup a qt/hospital tank. All you need is either an empty tank or rubbermaid container. Fill it up and run either a PH, air pump or small filter to move water around. Then just add copper or do hypos.

It really isn't that hard to set it up. And once you are treating your fish you'll be relieved. Sometimes fish won't survive the transfer but they could be too sick to move already. Thats why I was saying time is critical. When I transferred my fish I did a freshwater dip and saltwater with medicine on them.

 

[marrone]

Where are the references for this? Are you talking about hypo?

I've seen many threads where people used garlic and lost the fish. Is this a 50% cure, 75%, 25% or what? How is this a cure if it only works 25% of the time. And is there any chance that some of the other actions taken could account for it working. How about when people do nothing and the fish survive.

Copper attacks the ich parasite when its not on the fish. Ich (like inverts) cannot survive in small amounts of copper. The ich isn't killed when its on the fish but when the ich falls off. It takes 3-7 days for the ich to fall off the fish. How exactly does the garlic kill the ich?

Who said garlic killed ich? I don't see one post here where anyone say that. What it does it help the fish build up there immune systems and this is just part of the fish able to fight off the ich.

I hate to tell you but copper doesn't always kill ich and the same can be said for certain inverts, unless you dose very high and in that case it will kill almost anything including the fish.

I've also seem many case where people have used copper and lost fish also, does that make it not a cure also.

 

[marrone]

It really isn't that hard to set it up. And once you are treating your fish you'll be relieved. Sometimes fish won't survive the transfer but they could be too sick to move already. Thats why I was saying time is critical. When I transferred my fish I did a freshwater dip and saltwater with medicine on them.

A fresh water dip isn't going to anything you need to give a fish a fresh water bath. Even then some of the ich are dug in that the bath doesn't do any but stress out the fish.

If you act at first signs of ich and your fish are healthy and eating you should be able to cure the ich and even if you wait a short while you sure be able to cure it. There isn't a need to panic as unless the fish is very delicate you should be able to cure the ich.

 

[kimoyo]

Who said garlic killed ich? I don't see one post here where anyone say that. What it does it help the fish build up there immune systems and this is just part of the fish able to fight off the ich.

If garlic doesn't kill ich, how is feeding a fish garlic and hoping that their immune system gets better any different from just leaving the fish alone in good water and hoping that its immune system gets better? How do you know the garlic is improving their immune system?

I hate to tell you but copper doesn't always kill ich and the same can be said for certain inverts, unless you dose very high and in that case it will kill almost anything including the fish.

I've also seem many case where people have used copper and lost fish also.

Copper has been proven to kill ich. Where is your prove that it doesn't kill ich? Where have these studies been done? If you take an ich parasite and put it in copper it will die. Do you have a reference supporting that copper doesn't kill ich? The copper doesn't kill the ich on the fish but when the ich is not on the fish. Either copper at a certain level will kill ich in its free swimming stage or it won't. As long the procedure is done correctly it should work. Now if there were some issues with having the correct levels of copper in the tank thats a different story.

 

[kimoyo]

A fresh water dip isn't going to anything you need to give a fish a fresh water bath. Even then some of the ich are dug in that the bath doesn't do any but stress out the fish.

A temperature and ph adjusted fresh water dip is perfectly safe for fish. If I believed that a fresh water dip cured ich I wouldn't have said treat with copper after. But a fresh water dip will help other problems that might be noticed after the fish are put in the quaratine and not before.

If you act at first signs of ich and your fish are healthy and eating you should be able to cure the ich and even if you wait a short while you sure be able to cure it. There isn't a need to panic as unless the fish is very delicate you should be able to cure the ich.

If you act how? Are you saying using a hypo/copper treatment or just feeding garlic?

So you are saying you should act timely and not wait weeks to do something, correct?

 

[marrone]

Copper has been proven to kill ich. Where is your prove that it doesn't kill ich? Where have these studies been done? If you take an ich parasite and put it in copper it will die. Do you have a reference supporting that copper doesn't kill ich? The copper doesn't kill the ich on the fish but when the ich is not on the fish. Either copper at a certain level will kill ich in its free swimming stage or it won't. As long the procedure is done correctly it should work. Now if there were some issues with having the correct levels of copper in the tank thats a different story.

Yes copper has proven to kill ich but it doesn't do it all the time. Some times the levels have to be so high that they kill the fish that your trying to treat, which defeats the purpose. The time lengths required with copper have varity as some strains of ich have comeback even after long period of copper.

The studies that have been done are first hand exprecience and seeing other people expreciences. Not everyone write books and does studies on things as some just have expreciences over time and what has happen and what has worked and what hasn't worked. It doesn't make some thing wrong if it's not written down some where.

 

[Deanos]

Not taking sides, just adding fuel to the fire: Garlic vs. Ich
:lol:

 

[kimoyo]

I hate to tell you but copper doesn't always kill ich and the same can be said for certain inverts, unless you dose very high and in that case it will kill almost anything including the fish.

0.2 ppm - Cupramine is effective on ich.
0.5 ppm - Recommended level to treat ich by Seachem.
0.8 ppm - Dangerous for fish.

 

[cali_reef]

Please post your experience. I don't feel like reading through 33 pages :bigeyes2: to catch up. :thanks:

Basically none of the commercial rid-ich products he used worked.

 

[Deanos]

0.2 ppm - Cupramine is effective on ich.
0.5 ppm - Recommended level to treat ich by Seachem.
0.8 ppm - Dangerous for fish.

Finally, some numbers! Is the .8 ppm dangerous for ich-infested fish or healthy fish? I would think there's an important difference. :scratchch

 

[marrone]

If garlic doesn't kill ich, how is feeding a fish garlic and hoping that their immune system gets better any different from just leaving the fish alone in good water and hoping that its immune system gets better? How do you know the garlic is improving their immune system?

Do you think that a fish can fight off ich by itself? Do you think that feeding a fish health food that builds up it's strength and help it immume system isn't good? And how do you know that garlic isn't improving their immun system. Getting a fish to eat during any diseases is very important and keeping the fish alive and strong enough to fight off the diseases is part of that. Everything plays a part, food, water conditions and medication. I think you need to get over the fact that you don't see it written down some, garlic, and see that it has worked in some case.