pairing banggai cardinals or territorial behavior?

[homegrowncichlid]

Hi all, I bought 6 of these 3 weeks ago, and but them into their own 38 gallon tank, wich has been running for a few months now.
I took my best guess at sexing them in shop, and assumed the 3 larger ones looked kinda masculine, and the 3 slightly smaller ones were more feminine.
At first, they all swam together in a school in the current, and were all eating well.
ON day 10, 2 big ones were in the current alone, and the other 4 were all downstream, in a corner. Now I'm guessing the big males are trying to take up some territory and are keeping the others out. One would be on the left side, and the other on the right, with the 4 covered in a tiny area to the back near the surface of the water.
ON day 15, one of the little ones stopped eatting and starved to death. (it stopped eating a few days earlier of course, but I was trying to feed it)
ON day 19, the 2 big fish are still hanging out in the current in the front, and it's getting difficult to feed the other 3, which are starting to hide in the rocks, in the back.
ON day 22 (today), it dawned on me that the 2 big ones maybe a loose pair?. They dont exacty swim right next to each other, but are in line of sight of each other. The other 3 are really hard to feed now.

My question is:
I know males fight each other off, but do females fight off other females?
Would a pair fight off a 3rd female? The chances of me having 5 males and 1 female seems rather remote.

How fast do bangai's pair? 3 weeks seem reasonable?

 

[2slo4me]

Ive never had luck with em... the bigger one of the bunch always survived. once i would enter another one into the tank within a few days it would stop eating and die. however ive never seen any of them fight.

 

[zook]

I'm no expert, but I've read a lot on these fish and am trying to breed them. First off, it's simply impossible to find any distinguishing feature between the male and female. Second, once paired, remove other Banggai within the enclosed system or they'll eventually die. Keep in mind that these fish are nocturnal so any aggressive behavior are happening while you sleep. These fish tend to school as juveniles, but once paired up, they won't tolerate other of their kind.

I have a pair in one tank who are always together and the male constantly tries to get the female to breed. These two are the same size. In another tank, I have one large Banggai with two smaller ones; they each hang out separately in the tank. The larger one will only chase away one of the smaller one so I assume he's the dominant male and the two smaller ones are a male and a female. I've tried putting another larger Banggai in the same tank, but the two larger Banggais were puffing up their fins and their jaws so I assume they were compatible.

I would assume that your two larger one are pair so remove the others ASAP as they won't survive in the same tank. I'm unsure of how two females in react, but I assume they'll tolerate each other, but won't breed or show any spawning behavior. I don't know if these will form harem in an enclosed system, but I highly doubt it. Also, it's not how fast they pair, it's how old are they before they begin to pair off.

Deemed the easiest SW fish to breed, I have much better luck at getting my Green Mandarins and Seahorses to spawn than these Banggai Cradinals. . .

 

[homegrowncichlid]

Thanks, I took out the extra cardinals last week and they are in my sump now. One of them chases the other around quite a bit if they see each other, but it's a big sump.
Yep, the 2 big ones are doing nicely with each other. Right now they are by themselves, with about 30 feeder shrimp. (I saw one of them eat half a shrimp when I first placed them in, and I'm missing a sexy shrimp in there) Yep whatever it takes to keep them fat right?

I wish I spoke with you earlier when I had all 6 of my cardinals, I would've separated them out much sooner, like week 2, and may have formed another pair in my sump.

I agree with cardinals being so twichy. If I lose this pair, ( and this is my 2nd attempt at starting with 6) I'm going to move on. They are kinda tough to target feed. I have to feed the rest of the stuff, and then float a mysis down in front of them when everyone else is distracted. They are also too difficult to get threw quarantine, since they are so easily intimidated by each other, and they stop eating. I mean the 38 tank was my quarantine tank, and they didnt all make it past week 3. I've read similar intimidation behavior with raising the fry.

 

[ming]

The 2 that you had swimming in the current are a pair. Once they pair off, they will chase any other banggai away, usually into a corner of a tank if there is no place to get away. The ones being chased away will usually start to fade in color from my experience and won't really eat because they're too scared. The pair should be separated into another tank. You really shouldn't have to put the mysis in front of their face. Once they get used to your tank, they will swim to the food and eat it aggressively.
I was fortunate to buy 6 and ended up with 3 pairs, and I have spare tanks to isolate the pairs once they pair off. I fed them everything from frozen mysis, to cut up mussles, some cyclopeeze and some cut up clam now and then.

I'm not sure how you decided which ones were masculine or not, but you should look at the shape of their jaw. One should be more cornered off, the other should be more round for a male/female match. The size has no impact on the sex from what I've seen

 

[jimidalock]

I bought a pair of banggai about a year ago they swam together for a while and now they stay on seperate sides of the tank. It's a crapshoot.

 

[homegrowncichlid]

Did you notice if the females were doing any of the chasing? or was it just the males?

The 2 that you had swimming in the current are a pair. Once they pair off, they will chase any other banggai away, usually into a corner of a tank if there is no place to get away. The ones being chased away will usually start to fade in color from my experience and won't really eat because they're too scared. The pair should be separated into another tank. You really shouldn't have to put the mysis in front of their face. Once they get used to your tank, they will swim to the food and eat it aggressively.
I was fortunate to buy 6 and ended up with 3 pairs, and I have spare tanks to isolate the pairs once they pair off. I fed them everything from frozen mysis, to cut up mussles, some cyclopeeze and some cut up clam now and then.

I'm not sure how you decided which ones were masculine or not, but you should look at the shape of their jaw. One should be more cornered off, the other should be more round for a male/female match. The size has no impact on the sex from what I've seen

 

[ming]

From what I observed, only 1 of them chased off all the others. I didn't really inspect which sex it was, but I assume it was the male

 

[zook]

I can almost confirm that it's also the male that expresses the aggression. When I placed two males together, they started clicking jaws and have to be separated. In my experiences so far and I'm hypothesizing here, a pair will always stay together and the male will do his little dance to try and pick up the eggs from the female, two males will fight, and two females will tolerate each other.

If you really want to breed these, I really think a single pair in a 10g is the best way to go. That way, they are easily fed with no aggression and competition from anything else. It's also very easy to remove the male with fry or just the fry in a bare 10g.