bare bottoms? (tanks of course)

[Anonymous]

have a friend helping me set up a 125. he has had a LR with a bare bottom for several years. has anyone else done this? what are the pros and cons?
TIA,
damsel

 

[Anonymous]

Damsel,

A bare bottom tank certainly can work, combined with a good protein skimmer, you have a “Classic Berlin” system.

Been there done that a number of times.

Nowadays, I favor tanks with deep live sand beds.

Deep live sand beds:

#1 Give you lots of additional bacterial surface for nutrient processing.

#2 Properly configured, nitrate levels are kept at levels that are “undeletable”

#3 If aragonite media is used, CA levels are supplemented.

#4 If properly “seeded” and fed, they will host lots of fauna that can process large amount of waste.

#5 Promote plankton and other fauna that help feed your filter feeders, corals, etc.

#6 Increase effective light levels by reflecting light upwards.

Regards,

Scott

 

[Anonymous]

Scott basicly cover all the bases, I could only add that another avantage having sand is that it will protect your bare bottom glass incase a large piece of rock decide to tumble down.

 

[Anonymous]

Having a sandbed also makes your tank 100 times better in terms of looks.

 

[Anonymous]

They "all" work..... Which one do you find more appealing?

 

[Anonymous]

Hi all,
You forgot the fact that with sand beds, you don't have to vacuum/remove detritus, a never ending job with bare bottoms.
... Jim

 

[Anonymous]

JimT

Thanks for pointing that out.

Vacuuming an established live sand bed actually does it harm.

Regards,

Scott

 

[Anonymous]

I have a "almost" bare bottom 75. I keep a little sand for asthetics. How deep would you recommend? Scott mentions "properly configured". What is properly configured? and where can I read more?

I am getting ready to convert to a 120 and want to have a deeper sand bed. (anyone in Atlanta want to buy a used 75?)

Thanks!

Paul

 

[Anonymous]

Paul,

There are lots of postings on the board relating to live sand beds. Just do a search. This is a complex subject, and I won’t waist the boards space in re-posting, but if you would like, please feel free to send me an E-mail offline.

Basically,

Make it deep. (4 – 6”)

Make it fine. My current recipe is:

60% Very Fine (<0.5mm, ESV Fine Grade oolitic)
30% Fine (~0.5mm, CaribSea oolitic select, formerly called Argomax Sugar Size Select)
10% Course (~2mm, CaribSea Seaflor Special Grade Reef)

Seed it with live sand from varied sources, and detrivore kits.

Three excellent articles that I wound recommend are:

#1 Dr Ron’s articles, “Muddy Waters”. http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/aqfm/1999/june/features/1/default.asp

#2 And “The Why's and How's of Sand Beds”. http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog/r_shimek_090698.html

#3 The two part FAMA article, Are Plenums Obsolete” in the JAN & FEB 2000 issues.

Regards,

Scott

 

[Anonymous]

Scott

On your list of advantages for having a sandbed, has #6 really been studied enough to be verified? I wouldn't think the sandbed would reflect enough light to list it as a significant advantage. How much light can a sandbed reflect? I have never heard much about this and would like more information.

Also, about the Ca supplementation. Again, I do not deny such a process might occur, but the Ca++ ions released in our aquariums through a standard ag. based sandbed would be way too insignificant to list that as an advantage for having a sandbed. I doubt it would even be noticeable. Again, these are just my suspicions, so I would like more information to study this possible benefit as well.

By the way, I agree with you that live sand has great benefits in our aquariums

Joel H

------------------
Castles made of sand fall to the sea, eventually.
---Jimi Hendrix

[This message has been edited by Joel H (edited 16 May 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Joel H (edited 16 May 2000).]

 

[Anonymous]

I have had a 45 gallon set up with a "bare bottom" since August '99. It is my first tank so I have no comparrison's but here's what I think.
I was told not to have sand becuase it can sometimes cause the tank to crash. So I listened and (knock on wood) I've had stability sonce the beginning. I don't vacuum the bottom, but occasionally use a powerhead to blow the ditris around that regular circulation misses. I have spaghetti worms, teeny tiny stars and snails and everything seems to be working for me.

Having said that, I am considering adding a sand bed when I move the tank. I think I like the look of the sand - but I hope I don't end up regretting my decision.

------------------
ladyballplayer,
http://www.geocities.com/ladybeachlover

 

[Anonymous]

Joel, I just put a sandbed into my 75g after it had been set up 5 years with no substrate. I can't give you a lumen count or anything, but I can tell you that it looks like I added more light.

 

[Anonymous]

White sand reflects light back up off the bottom. Clear or corraline encrusted glass does not.

Do you need a more quantifiable answer than that? If so, why?

Cheers
James Wiseman

------------------
Reefs.org Channel Operator

 

[Anonymous]

I can comment that I increased my sandbed from 1/2-2" (varied) up to 3.5" all around the reef about 3-4 weeks ago. Entire sandbed is made up of Special Reef Grade Aragonite (the 2 mm size). I also added 5 pounds of live sand (won't disclose source so as to keep this thread more on topic). I can see that my pod population has increased. I have seen many more brittle stars and have actually started seeing these white millipeed looking things (2) the other night as well as lots of worms against the glass that look like brown hairs (bristle?). Nitrogen bubbles coming from the sand have increased dramatically since sand depth has been increased. This is not the preferred makeup of the sand but it has shown me you can add to an existing tank without to many issues and it appears that the larger size grains (2mm) will sustain the worms..........RR

 

[Anonymous]

Joel H

With regards to the sand bed reflecting light back upwards, a light colored aragonite should have a fairly high reflectivity. After all, wasn’t too long ago that the reflectors in our light fixtures were simply white enamel. Now nobody would claim that a white reflector is as efficient as a “Spiderlight” for example, but still, a good amount of light is reflected by a “whitish” surface. As an ex portrait photographer, I remember using white cardboard as shadow fill reflectors.

I will be doing a light study when I get my new 180 set up with metal halide lamps, using a underwater lux meter, so this should be fairly easy to verify.

On the subject of aragonite sands dissolving at a significant rate, I will be the first to admit that aragonite does not dissolve at the PH of the water in water column of our tanks. However I am speculating that in the deepest layers of an established deep live sand bed, that because of biological CO2 production, pH levels reach a low enough point for dissolution to occur at “useful” rates. The single common thread with reef keepers that I have talked with, who have observed this, is a deep, fine sand bed.

I will be placing a pH probe in the bottom of my 6” deep sand bed, to see if I can substantiate the low pH hypothesis.

Ladyballplayer,

I would recommend that you review the articles, that I mentioned above, as IMHO an improperly configured, seeded, and “fed” sand bed can very well become be a nutrient trap, and cause an eventual crash.

Regards,

Scott

 

[Anonymous]

Scott,

Thank you for the additional information, and good luck with your experiments. If everything works out right, perhaps you could present your findings during a #reefs talk

Happy Reefing

Joel H

------------------
Castles made of sand fall to the sea, eventually.
---Jimi Hendrix