Sump Build

[scubajay]

I?m looking to put together a 57 gallon rimless reef tank 36 x 18 x21 and need some advice. I was originally going to purchase a sump from one of the manufacturers but then decided to build one. This is the design that I came up with. Is not the best design but I wanted to get ideas first before I make it more detail. The sump will be a 15 gallon fish tank, 24 x 12 x 12. The reason why im not going for a 20 gallon sump is because the width is 30" and would only leave me with about 5" to 6" of space to work with. Im looking to also place my top off water container in the cabinet and by going with a 24" sump it will leave me with an 11" of space which is what im looking for.

1. I made the bubble wall with two baffles, will this work. I usually see the bubble walls made with three baffles.

2. From the Refugium to the return section there is a 2" bubble wall that will have glass spacers so i can put eggcrates on top to hold filter media (carbon, filter floss etc). Will this work or is it overkill. I can run the sump without the media but if there ever comes a time that I want to add media to the sump there is a spot for it.

3. The Intake section is only 7" wide. What good in sump skimmer can I use that will fit in this section. Im trying not to go for an external skimmer due to the fact than an overflow can occur.

4. On the return side Im looking to put an eheim 1260 to pump the water back to the display. On the return pipe Im looking to put a split in case later on I want to install a phosban reactor.

What do you think, suggestions please. Good or bad!

 

[dennis]

The intake/fuge side only needs one baffel and tow on the return side to eliminate and prevent bubbles from entering the main display this is how i made my sump and its being working fine for many years, yours is fine just keep in mind you can go small on the return side being that it will only be housing the return pump. And and you may want to leave the larger space for the intake chamber considering what you may want to place in that compartment skimmer, heater, reactor, ect.. and 1'' between the fuge/return baffels will also work fine.

 

[scubajay]

Thanks Dennis, Im going to redesign it and will post tomorrow. Thank you for your input.

 

[mbg75]

20high would give same length, but more height. Better for drain down when return pump is off.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[dennis]

You're welcomed and good luck.
And remember to leave enough extra volume in sump so it can handle some back siphon from main tank...

 

[scubajay]

Thanks MBG, I thought about the 20 gallon but the height was the only thing I was contemplating on. I was thinking that it would be harder to work on the sump (especially to remove the skimmer to clean) since its higher. Im planning on putting a fan and a refugium light and dont know if that would be an issues. I havent picked out the stand yet but when i do that is one of the things that im looking for.

 

[scubajay]

This is a picture of the new sump design, I went with the 20 gallon high tank (24 x 12 x 16). This way I can also have a 5 gallon water container next to the sump inside the cabinet. The first compartment as you can see is where the skimmer will be. The second compartment is the refugium (8" wide and will have a deep sandbed or I might just add miracle mud) and third compartment will be the return line. My intake pipe will have a sock which should mininze the bubbles that comes in from the tank. The outflow from the skimmer ( I will have to raise the skimmer about three inches, I will be building an eggcrate stand) will be higher than the 1" opening from the first baffle, this should minimize the bubbles going into the refugium. The second set of baffles after the refugium are pretty high (water level will be around 12" to 13 1/2") so I do not see why any bubbles should make it down the two baffle bubble trap. The return compartment will be as high as I possibly can make it (the water level will be determined after doing a sump overflow test) in order to go longer between top offs.

Will this work, what are you thoughts, is there a problem with a few bubbles going into the refugium. What can I do to make this sump more efficient. Are my walls too high. How high should my water level be. This is my first crack at building my own sump so any comments good or bad will be accepted.

 

[masterswimmer]

Your baffles are waaaay too high. Your design is admirable but needs a good amount of work.

1 - Your skimmer will work best in about 8" of water. Use the baffle to get this height, don't raise the skimmer.

2 - The fuge section is very small and honestly, that size really won't offer you much benefit. I would just make the skimmer section bigger, and DEFINITELY make the return section bigger.

3 - An auto top off for your return pump section is very convenient for evaporation. The larger the return chamber the less often the ato will cycle on/off.

4 - 2" space between the last baffles is a waste of space. Running carbon or phosban passively in those sections is very inefficient. If you use 1" space it'll give you that 1" to either use in the overflow section or even in the fuge if you decide to keep it in the design. Honestly, I never use two baffles between the fuge and return chamber. I only use one, placed at the proper height will provide your return pump with the necessary water height and save space.

5 - Equal water pressure on both sides of the baffles creates very little pressure. There is no reason whatsoever to waste space with 1/4" glass baffles. Use 1/8" glass and save the space, costs less, and have no worry.

There are lots of sump designs online. Some work better than others. Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be.

Russ

 

[scubajay]

Masterswimmer

1. I was under the impression that if I wanted to run the water at a higher level all I had to do is raise the skimmer. What are the cons of raising the skimmer. The height of the tank is 16? which means that will leave me with 8? of unused real estate. I thought the whole idea was to increase the overall tank volume.


2. What should be the minimum size of a refugium. The size that Im looking to do is 8x12, Im looking to have a deepsand bed, with live rocks and chaeto algae.

3. My return section will be 5 ? x 12 x 11 (the height is still to be determined)

4. Actually my first drawing had 2? space between the last baffles but on the picture the baffles are 1? apart. I will not be running carbon or phosban through the sections. Im looking to get a couple of reactors.

5. In regard to the baffle thickness. I read somewhere that that if you go with the 1/8? baffle thickness there will not be enough area for the silicone to grab and can therefore leak. The 1/4? thickness provides a better area for the silicone to grab and less likely to leak.

 

[masterswimmer]

Masterswimmer

1. I was under the impression that if I wanted to run the water at a higher level all I had to do is raise the skimmer. What are the cons of raising the skimmer. The height of the tank is 16? which means that will leave me with 8? of unused real estate. I thought the whole idea was to increase the overall tank volume.


2. What should be the minimum size of a refugium. The size that Im looking to do is 8x12, Im looking to have a deepsand bed, with live rocks and chaeto algae.

3. My return section will be 5 ? x 12 x 11 (the height is still to be determined)

4. Actually my first drawing had 2? space between the last baffles but on the picture the baffles are 1? apart. I will not be running carbon or phosban through the sections. Im looking to get a couple of reactors.

5. In regard to the baffle thickness. I read somewhere that that if you go with the 1/8? baffle thickness there will not be enough area for the silicone to grab and can therefore leak. The 1/4? thickness provides a better area for the silicone to grab and less likely to leak.

1 - You're absolutely correct, you can raise the skimmer as high as you'd like. The higher you raise it, the less room you'll have for back flow in the case of an inevitable power outage. In addition, the higher you raise it, the less room you'll have to do maintenance.

2 - There is no 'minimum size' for a refugium. However, there is very small and ineffective refugiums....to which your 8" x 12" falls into, especially if you're running a DSB (which is considered ~ 6" deep). You would wind up with only about 2" of water above the 6" sandbed (assuming you run your baffles at 8" height).

3 - ?? Not sure what your question is.

4 - I would have one baffle between your 'fuge' and return pump. No need for two.

5 - In that line of thinking you can use 3/8" or 1/2" glass as that would provide more surface area to 'grab' the glass. 1/4" is all that is needed. Remember, when you build a tank, the water pressure is all outward. When you build the baffles into an enclosed tank, the water pressure is on both sides of the baffle and therefore more secure. Besides, when you say it can 'leak', where is the water going to leak to? I'll answer that, it's going to 'leak' to the other side of the baffle, within the tank. So there isn't any 'leaking' so to speak.

Russ

 

[scubajay]

1. I will be doing some backflow tests starting at 8" to see how much room I will have in the tank in the event of a power outage.

2. You are right, I migh just go with a 2" to 3" sandbed with some live rocks, a few snails and maybe grow some macro algae.

3. I was just giving you the dimmensions of my return section. It looks like it would only hold about 3.1 gallons of RODI water. I will also have a 5 gallon water container next to the tank for auto to offs. I guess I should make this section a little bigger so it can hold more water. Can the water level from the return be higher than the water levels from the other two chambers. Most of all of the sump pictures I've seen shows the return section with a lower water level than the other section.

4. As you can see from the picture I do not have a bubble wall between the first two sections. I was looking to do a two baffle bubble wall so that if any bubbles make it to the refugium section which most likely will they will not flow into the return section. If I remove one of the baffles from the Refug to the return will leave me with no bubble walls. Is there another way to stop the bubbles, I would love to remove one of the baffles this would give more room for the return section or refug.

5. It make sense regarding the pressure. I guess having the baffles 1/8" can work as well. This will give me about 1.75" more for the refug or the return. This would give me about 4.3" gallons of water for the return or 10 3/4 x 12 for the refug.

I guess I still have some work to do.

 

[masterswimmer]

I guess I still have some work to do.

This is the design that I came up with. Is not the best design but I wanted to get ideas first before I make it more detail.

Jay,
Based on your original post you must have expected to make some changes. This is your first attempt at building a sump, you're doing fine. You're doing your due diligence before doing the actual construction. Kudos.

Keep in mind that water is going to seek its own level. The first baffle is going to need to be the highest and each one after that will need to be at the same level or lower. You cannot go up in baffle height after the first baffle, only down.

Russ

 

[fishman1069]

+1 Great job doin your homework first. Most people would build first and ask what they did wrong later lol