Newbe needs bristle worm help...

[Haro]

I'm a newbe to saltwater tanks, and I have some questions about bristle worms.

Here are my tank stats...

26gal flat back hex
1 402 power head
1 302 power head
Fluvil Filter
65watt smartlamp
10lb live sand
10lb live rock (soo far)

2 snails (don't know what kind, sand hitchhikers)
3 hurmit cabs (little ones)
1 cleaner shrimp
1 Scooter Blenny
and 8+ bristle worms

so... are bristle worms allways bad for a tank? I'm hopeing to have a Soft coral reef tank with few fish (maybe one or two more fish) and some crustations. If they are bad and I do need to get rid of them how? I do want a arrow crab which I think eats bristle worms but i've had conflicting opions about it with the other critters? what do you guys think? and if i can't have an arrow crab, how do i build a bristle worm trap?

Thanks in advance

 

[aquarist=broke]

Haro,

I don't know why this part of the Forum has such dismal help sometimes. Maybe because people ask some really hard questions. Back to the question.

The bristleworm problem, IMO, isn't really a problem. I have always seen bristleworms doing good things for the tank. If there are any scraps of missed food or anything food related, these little scavengers pounce. Check the Hitchhiker FAQ on this site for more info on them.

Hope this helps.

P.S. Another thing I would suggest is to ditch the Fluval canister filter as it will just become a nitrate factory. If you can't return it, I would just take the stuff out of it so it just cycles water through it for circulation.

 

[Haro]

Why do you say the fluvel will become a nitrogen facorty? all I have in the fliter comartments is the chunky macaroni type things and the foam filter.

 

[aquarist=broke]

Those chunky mac&cheese things + the filter + your saltwater aquaruim = a really efficient nitrifying bacteria home.

If you understand the Nitrogen cycle,http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-cycling.html, then you can understand where I'm coming from.

In our aquaruims, we would like to have as little Nitrates as possible. In an ideal environment, we would like for the nitrifying bacteria to accumulate on our rock, sandbed, and glass. The rock and your cleanup crew(2 snails (don't know what kind, sand hitchhikers), 3 hurmit cabs(little ones), 1 cleaner shrimp, 1 Scooter Blenny, and 8+ bristle worms, and numerous little sand/rock critters) will take care of what the fluval boasts it can do for you.

Uneaten food, fish waste, and anything that may enter the Fluval will deteriorate and become food for the nitrifying bacteria, this produces Nitrates. If the fluval is not cleaned out frequently(daily), the build up will multiply to outrageous levels thus creating a Nitrate Factory.

Check around or ask somebody else here. I frequent here alot to learn as much as I possibly can.....

 

[Haro]

Thanks for all the helpfull information, but I'm a little confused, I thought the point of a filter was to take the bad stuff (different chemicals) out of the water (make it cleaner) with a skimmer(which i don't have yet) to take out the organic bits. Why did I buy a filter if it is just going to add nitrogen to my new little ecosystem?

Maybe you've misunderstood my (spelling) vision for my tank, its not going to be a fish tank, rather a reef tank with just a tiny bit of fishes... After reading the article that you sugested, it sounds like fish pee and poop, the bacteria eat that and poop nitrogen. I think (hopeing) that the lack of fish in my tank will make for a lack of nitrogen, and the bacteria in my filter will be the same kind I have in my live sand (there's no place like home, there's no place like home, click click click). Am i just living in a fantasy world, did I get duped into buying a filter i didn't need?

Really I apreciate your knowalgeable advice, I'm just descussing not disputing your wisdom.

 

[danmhippo]

"Dismal help"? Sorry, I thought this is a long weekend...... :mrgreen:

Back to the original question. Bristle worms are detrivores. There is nothing wrong with them in the tank. I probably have hundreds of them in my tank, some fat and long, and many smaller ones. They are all efficient detrivore and are often misunderstood. People in the past often seen them munching on dead remains of inverts and fish and associates them as fish/invert killer. Rather, they are merely cleaning up the available foods that would otherwise directly contribute to nitrogen cycle without being utilized to their maximum.

Talking about nitrogen cycle, I agree with A=B(I hope he comes up with a easier to call name pretty soon). Bio media in the canister filter are very efficient in what they do best, oxidizing ammonia into nitrite and into nitrate. The end result of canister filter with bio media is nitrate.

However, in DSB, nitrate is further utilized and broken down by anaerobic bacteria into N2 and O2. Nitrate does not accumulate in the solution and is being broken down as they are being produced.

When you incorporate a canister filter into your setup. Aerobic bacteria keeps on producing nitrate but you have little mechanism in your setup to get rid of nitrate for you. People typically incorporate either protein skimmer, macroalgae refugium, DSB, or combinations of either 2 or all three for nutrients export. Either of these three is far superior to canister filter in a reef setup.

 

[Haro]

Ah now I understand, So I guess I'll shut down the Filter till I get a skimmer. Thanks guys/galls

PART 2 :

How do you feel about arrow crabs and my current tankmants and if I were to get one what creatures would you not put with the odd little fellow?

 

[Chucker]

For some great bristle info, have a look in the Library, and take a peek at Rob Toonen's Bristleworm FAQ.

 

[AgentSPS]

For some reason I too have had the seed that bristle worms are BAD planted long ago in my mind. I think the concern was for giant clams as the worms, people were worried, would eat at the foot or get in the valves. I have since read that while the worms look painful they are detritivores and will go for the easiest meal (fish poop and other partially broken down debris). I have several pieces of liverock which are completely riddled with worms. They are the perfect cleaning companions. Best of all they reproduce rapidly and cost nothing! So while the industry will want you to believe that expensive hermits, cucumbers, and stars are the only beneficial fauna, I say grow worms!

On the subject of industry smoke and mirrors....Keep in mind that the companies that make equipment are out to make your MONEY! If it means milking myths and overpromising/misleading marketing, they are all for it. Mechanical filtration in a reef runs 'counter current' (pun intended) to modern reef keeping theory. Keep it natural...the only mechanical filtration you need is a good skimmer (still natural as waves in the ocean is natural skimming) and maybe a filter sock to prevent large debris from clogging pumps. Otherwise your tank will take care of itself. Trust me....I have been doing this for 12 years and I fell for the gimics when I was young! What a waste...Why do wet dry filters even exist anymore? Because companies make tons of $$ off of them. Save the money for better lighting, better skimming, and better fish/coral!

Here is what to do with the fluval. Fill it with bags of activated carbon. Every few months or so run the thing for about a day. The carbon acts as a powerful sponge for both organics and non organics. It will remove any dangerous trace element buildup, heavy metals (tap water or salt mixes), and other gunk!

Hope this helps!

Erik